I have been reading from an Internet web page called "Coming In The Clouds" which professes to be a A "Worldwide Internet Christian Discipleship Ministry." This is because I have noticed how folks from this web page have been reading our writings here on this blog. Recently there was a post titled "Primitive Baptists – True Hyper-Calvinists" (see here). It was published March 13 of this year. I want to share some of the things said in this article about the Hardshells by one who only recently discovered them, and who was an object of proselyting efforts by the Hardshells.
The article begins with these words (emphasis mine):
"This article is the result of several months of dialog with Primitive Baptists (also known as Hardshell Baptists) and a good deal of time spent reading their literature. The dialog primarily consisted of email correspondence with a particularly outspoken apologist for that sect along with some interaction with several people on a Facebook Primitive Baptist discussion forum. I read articles by Primitive Baptists and former Primitive Baptists and I listened to a number of Primitive Baptist audio messages."
After reading this, any person should be interested in the results of such an investigation into the beliefs of those who call themselves "Primitive Baptists." I know I was! I wish that everyone who first confronts Hardshellism would be as noble as was this person in his investigation! Noble Bereans!
The author of the article next writes:
"What I discovered was several things, namely that this group holds to a heretical doctrine regarding evangelism: they genuinely believe that there is no point to conventional evangelism – preaching to the lost as a “means” of salvation. They believe that salvation only involves the Holy Spirit without any assistance from preachers or evangelists or other persons preaching the word of God to effect salvation in unsaved sinners. They mistakenly believe that these two scripture passages:
“salvation is of the Lord” (Jonah 2:9) and
“not of works” (Eph 2:9)
are saying that salvation does not even involve the efforts of an evangelist preaching the law of God to bring conviction of sin to the unregenerated."
Well, amen to that! The Hardshells have no scripture to support their presuppositions and attempt to rely solely on logic, inferences, suppositions, etc. I have written about this numerous times! Such as in Demolishing Hardshell Reasoning and Hardshell Presuppositions and in many other such postings.
The author next writes:
"Determining that these folks were teaching heresy regarding evangelism took a while to figure out for a couple of reasons. I sort of fell into a trap, following a trail of crumbs they laid out before me that led me down the Primitive Baptist path of redefined words and reinterpreted scriptures…Yes, they look at words like regeneration and conversion differently than most Christians. And this causes them to interpret certain Bible verses differently than most Christians. So, what should have been obvious to me early on in my investigation, became obscured by my own tunnel vision as I followed that trail of crumbs."
What an excellent review of Hardshell literature and proselyting methods!
The author continues:
"Primitive Baptists apparently MISS two important things when they read the Bible, perhaps because they have already adopted their own definitions of things and perhaps because they are missing the overall picture of what was going on in the New Testament Church. These two important things are the 2 distinctions in the types of preaching documented in the Bible, as being engaged in by the early Church…
Preaching type 1: The early church was evangelizing the unsaved, (unbelievers/unregenerated) as can see by the biblical accounts of Paul preaching at Mars Hill and in the synagogues, Peter preaching at Pentecost, and Stephen preaching to the Sanhedrin. In fact, it is beyond obvious that they were preoccupied with this mission.
Preaching type 2: The early church leaders were teaching the saints (believers/regenerated) through the letters to the churches (along with direct, in person teaching of course). And one of the primary things they were teaching was the need to evangelize the lost, by their example and by their epistles. And yes, the early church leaders also spent time teaching about the importance of godly (Christlike) living."
This is all "right on"! The really Old Baptists, such as those who wrote the 1644 and 1689 London Confessions, and John Clark, the oldest Baptist in America, all talked about how their ministry was twofold. One was a "begetting" ministry, aimed at the unregenerate, with the intent of bringing about their regeneration, and the second was a "feeding ministry" aimed at those already saved, with the purpose of aiding them in their perseverance towards final salvation. See my posting John Clark & Obadiah Holmes Hardshells?
Next, the author of this excellent article writes the following under the sub heading "They Become Focused On Their Uniqueness" and says:
"And as much as Primitive Baptists may try to focus on Christ, what they end up doing is focusing on the uniqueness of their group, perhaps inadvertently, but never-the-less that’s how it looked to me as an outsider. I admire their desire to thoroughly examine Biblical issues. However, I believe Primitive Baptists have locked themselves into a compartment of doctrine with the words they have redefined and with the teachers and elders they put so much faith in, preventing them from any positive changes away from their erroneous soteriological doctrine."
So well said! Needs little comment! I just wish, hope, and pray that the Hardshells could get outside of themselves and see themselves clearly. As long as they see themselves through those cult spectacles, there is little chance that they are going to see things as they really are.
Next, under the sub heading "Why Would A New Believer Be Concerned About The Lost?" our author writes:
"Looking at my own change of heart upon regeneration, I can strongly testify, by way of the Spirit within me, that a genuine believer will have a burden to evangelize the lost. One must question their salvation if they do not have such a burden. Also, any doctrine that teaches and encourages Christians to not evangelize the lost (and to look for scriptural justification for that stance that involves redefining theological terms) is simply not of God and is of the evil one."
Again, "right on." Sadly, they don't see how they have descended from Baptists who had such a heart for the lost! Even Wilson Thompson, when he was baptized, confessed that he came out of the water with a desire to win the lost to Christ! Today's Hardshells may claim men like John Leland, but they do not have the heart for the lost that old Leland had! Concerning Leland and others who helped to begin the Hardshell denomination, see my posting Hardshells & Gospel Invitations.
Next our author writes:
"The central point that shows the error of Primitive Baptist doctrine regarding salvation (“no gospel means” as they refer to it) is regarding the biblical patterns for the 2 types of preaching in the New Testament. Those patterns don’t go away, no matter how they define things. Whether they believe that regeneration is separate from conversion (which they do) or whether they believe in “time salvation” or not. They believe in the idea that conversion takes place over time and does not necessarily coincide with regeneration. They also believe that you can be saved and not know it until some time after regeneration, at some time down the road, at which someone explains salvation to you from the Bible."
Again, all we can say is "amen." These things the Hardshells believe are foreign to the teachings of the scriptures.
Next under the sub heading "The New Testament Church Was Preoccupied With Evangelism" the author of this excellent article writes:
"The very thing that Primitive Baptists don’t believe in is the very thing that the early Church was preoccupied with. Primitive Baptists apparently don’t seem to understand just how much the New Testament church was actively involved in preaching to the lost. They were as mission-minded as you can get. They supported Paul in his missionary journeys. In addition, the Bible is chock full of examples of God sending messengers to preach to the unconverted. This is the way God does things historically. He sends His messengers out into the world to preach to the converted and unconverted a like. Just do a word search on the word “hearken” in the OT starting with Jeremiah and this fact becomes painfully obvious."
It is because the Hardshells are not evangelical, having no heart to win souls, and believing that God cannot and will not use them to that end, that they are dying, dying, dying! It is also why they can do nothing but fight, fight, fight! They divide, and "bite and devour" one another. I wrote a long series of articles on this very point, called "Addresses to the Lost." If they would just read those articles, they cannot but come away realizing their error. Sadly, most of them won't even give them a reading! They are so "set in their ways" and "hard headed" and "stubborn," characteristics of what it means to be "Hardshell."
Next, under the sub heading "Trying To Make A Case Based Upon A False Premise" our author writes:
"Primitive Baptists try to blend together the works of the lost sinner with the work of the ministry of the Gospel in an effort to build a case for not preaching to the lost. That blending is obvious in this Primitive Baptist article http://pbgrace.org/means.htm. But when you read that brief article, you can see that the author is presenting what is called a “straw man” argument…stating a false premise and then attacking it."
It is ironic how the Hardshells, though basing nearly all of their apologetic arguments on "logic," yet are guilty of the most illogical of reasonings! Yes, they use the proverbial "straw man" argument all the time! They use many other fallacious reasonings also, such as ad hominem, red herrings, begging the question, etc.
Next the author writes:
"The false premise of the Primitive Baptists can be stated this way: Since “evangelism” is a “work” of man, and knowing that the Bible states that salvation is “not of works”, God therefore cannot use evangelism as a “means” of saving someone. Who, other than a Primitive Baptist, would ever jump to the conclusion that Ephesians 2:9 is referring to both the sinner being preached to and the person doing the preaching?"
"False premises"? Yes, the Hardshells have many! They are premises (propositions and presuppositions) that they did not get from scripture, but which they take to scripture, and sadly attempt to make the scriptures to conform to them. Notice how this author sees through the faulty reasoning! Basically, this brother is saying, as I have said, that the Hardshells are a group of "oddballs." I don't say that to be purposefully offensive, but it is simply the truth. Actually, it is the nature of cults to be this way.
Next our author writes:
"The rest of the Church (those outside the Primitive Baptist camp) who believe in the sovereignty of God in salvation, would never deny that the sinner is dead in sin and cannot possibly reach out to God for salvation, cannot choose Christ, cannot accept Jesus as their savior. But they would not deny that God uses “means” – sends His laborers – into the fields to participate in the harvest. God is not ashamed to use mere vessels of clay as his messengers and as his laborers in the fields. But Primitive Baptists seem to think He should be ashamed. They claim that not only is the free-will gospel robbing God of His glory but that the evangelist is robbing God of His glory."
Again, notice how this author sees how the Hardshells try to rely on "logic" to uphold their aberrant views, rather than upon express statements of scripture! Is it logical to go preach to the dead? No. But, is it scriptural? Yes. God told Ezekiel to go preach to dry dead bones!
Next, this author writes:
"I guess if Paul had had some Primitive Baptists to “straighten him out” by telling him to not bother preaching to the lost as a means of salvation, he could have saved himself a whole lot of trouble..."
A little sarcasm there! But, it is sometimes apropos, yes? God and the bible writers sometimes speak in this manner when dealing with the stubborn, obstinate, and stiffnecked. When Bob Ross and I spent days together back in 1993 doing videos on Hardshellism with Larry Wessels (available on You-tube), he and I would often make such comments to each other about the Hardshells and their "logic" and how what they say indicts Jesus and the apostles!
Next, under the sub heading "Primitive Baptists’ Cult-Like Attributes" this able author writes:
"This very small, exclusive group of Christians who call themselves Primitive Baptists, seem to exhibit some characteristics of a Christian-like cult."
Yes, and thankfully, our writings have helped to keep some from becoming a cult member, and have helped to bring some out of it. Praise God that this brother was not "sucked in" by them and that God blessed him to see through all the smoke and see them for what they really are! Next he gives their cult characteristics, saying:
1. They have cult-like “gatekeepers” who guard the truth “as they see” it for their organization. These are a few individuals who write the stuff that everyone else is expected to subscribe to, like a creed or confession would have been used by protestant denominations of years gone by and similar to how the Jehovahs Witnesses use their Watchtower Society to print and promulgate Witnesses dogma. So Primitive Baptists have their teachers and spokespersons who write books and post teachings in online blogs and forums. Yes, it is true that many legitimate groups do this also.
2. They exhibit extreme exclusivity: They claim to be the ONLY group currently around that represents the truest and purest form of Christianity today, the most biblically accurate branch of the true Christian Church.
3. They claim to be able to trace their roots back to the first century church, a totally unverifiable claim that they never-the-less use, as a means of attempting to add validity to their group, a validity that no one can either prove or disprove…but the claim sure sounds impressive.
4. They have a unique view of certain passages of scripture that enables them to support their totally unorthodox doctrines."
Again, "amen" and "amen." I hope my Hardshell brethren who read this will read it with an honest and sincere heart! Next, under the sub heading "Obvious "Gospel Means" Passages In Scripture" our author says:
"There are plenty of passages in the Bible that indicate rather clearly, that preaching the gospel is the “means” by which God uses His messengers to effect salvation in the sinners He intends to save – in conjunction with the work of the Holy Spirit of course."
Yes, and everyone who reads the scriptures has to wonder how in the world could someone ever accept the no means view as do the Hardshells!
Under the sub heading "How Did Primitive Baptists End Up With Their Unbiblical Ideas?" our good author next writes:
"As convincing as Primitive Baptists can be, I could find no solid evidence that traces their beliefs back to the early church as they claim, nor do I think that they can convincingly deny that the beliefs they have, simply originated with a certain group of Baptists who splintered off from the “Missionary Baptists” in the 1800s. And then, over the years, their group developed this anti-missionary and anti-evangelism theology with corresponding new word definitions regarding the gospel, to suit their original position against missionary societies. And now that so much time has passed, they no longer realize the occurrence of that transition themselves, that such a theological metamorphosis has taken place in their denomination."
I am sure that my writings on the history of the Hardshells have helped this brother to see these things and for this I am thankful! It is true that today's Hardshells do not realize how they have changed so much and do not now believe what their forefathers believed! Further, they do not realize how this is all detrimental to their claim of having remained unchanged in doctrine over the centuries!
Next, the author says:
"I personally have not found the Primitive Baptist brand of Christianity showing up in the preaching and teaching of men of God who are I’ve grown to trust and whom so many other Christians have grown to trust over the centuries. That observation of mine in and of itself is not a “rock solid” case against the Primitive Baptist “no gospel means” doctrine. But it is noteworthy when taken into consideration with the points I mentioned above about the two types of New Testament preaching and teaching. Some PBs will say “Well what about John Gill? He shared our views regarding “no gospel means” in salvation.”. To that all I can say is that John Gill seems to be on both sides of the fence. Some of his commentary seems to lean on the Primitive Baptist “no gospel means” side and some commentary seems to lean more towards the traditional, historical, orthodox “gospel means” side."
What about John Gill? I have written so exhaustively on this point! Gill NEVER denied the use of means in regeneration! The Hardshells who say that Gill denied means are simply telling lies on the good doctor! They twist the learned doctor's words just like they did the 1689 confession via their "Fulton Confession."
Next, our author says:
"Primitive Baptists are in a very narrow camp, dangerously narrow. Which is a mark that other groups have, groups who claim to be the exclusive purveyors of the truth. Granted, narrowness does not necessarily negate the possibility of truth. But, it is a pretty common characteristic of a cult or unbiblical Christian sect."
Exactly!
Next he writes:
"Believe me, I have had to sort out many unusual ideas and doctrines since God saved me 31 years ago. (And I also! SG) Like with many cults and unorthodox sects, a lot of what Primitive Baptists teach seems to make a lot of sense and sounds biblical, and on many points even is biblical, especially regarding the sovereignty of God in salvation. But then there is a little bit of leaven that leavens the whole lump. Meaning something snuck in there that does not belong, and so certain words had to be re-defined to accommodate the unorthodox and unbiblical beliefs that are being promulgated by Primitive Baptists."
Such keen observations by this brother! And, he did not come to such conclusions quickly! But, he read Hardshell literature, studied, researched, and came to sound conclusions. Would to God others would follow his example!
Next he writes:
"To see things the Primitive Baptist way, you have to put on a certain special pair of “glasses” … you have to use “the Primitive Baptist dictionary” if you will, before their views make sense. And for me personally, I would have to throw away the heart of God that I’ve had for the 31 years since my new birth…a heart for lost souls to come to Christ, a burden to warn the lost to flee the wrath of God. The very thing representing the greatest change in me since my conversion (and I us the word ‘conversion’ in the traditional sense, not the Primitive Baptist sense), is the thing that Primitive Baptists say we should not even be doing, sharing God’s Word that souls might be saved….sharing God’s Word that the Lord of the harvest might see fit to convict and convert the Elect among those being preached to – that the Spirit of the living God would “give ears to hear” to some in the field where the Word is being sown. Just as God used Noah to bring salvation from the Flood to that small elect group of eight individuals, so God uses mere mortals to bring salvation to a lost and dying world."
Again, amen! So well stated that it needs little comment! These are things that I have been saying a long time. They are things that others have been saying about the Hardshells for decades!
Finally our good author writes:
"If Primitive Baptists are wrong on gospel “means”, which I believe they are, then there is no other conclusion that they have a doctrine that is the one doctrine that the Devil himself wishes all Christians would have, a doctrine that tells them they should not be doing the very thing that God commands them to do to: bring salvation to lost souls."
Good summation to a well written critique of the "Primitive Baptist" cult! Why do I bother with this sect? Many reasons, but chiefly for the reason stated here in the conclusion!
At the bottom of this good article the author lists many of our writings for those doing further research along with that of others. Here is the list.
Online Book About Hardshell Baptists by Stephen Garrett
BaptistGadfly Blog
Old Baptist – Where the real primitive or old Baptist faith is defended
Responding to Hardshell Comments
History and Heresies of Hardshell Baptists
Why We Are Not Primitive Baptists
The Killing Effects of Hyper-Calvinism by Bob Ross
Spurgeon versus Hyperism by Bob L. Ross & Ian D. Elsasser
Cultic Hyper-Calvinistic Doctrines of the Primitive Baptist Church Part #1
Cultic Hyper-Calvinistic Doctrines of the Primitive Baptist Church Part #2
Cultic Hyper-Calvinistic Doctrines of the Primitive Baptist Church Part #3
I encourage all to visit this good brother's web page and write to him and let him know how much you appreciate his good review.
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