Elder Helms called me at 8 am the next day and wanted to know if he and Sonny could come by this morning about 10.
(remember that the following is an imaginary dialogue)
Knock Knock
Stephen
Good morning brothers! So good to see you again. I hope you all had a good service last evening and a good night's rest.
Newell
Yes, we had a good service. Sonny preached one of his ablest messages. Perhaps your discussion yesterday stirred him as he preached with a little more youthful vigor, as he use to do when he was a young stallion rather than an old dinosaur. (laugh)
Stephen
I wish I could have heard it. But, of course, I have heard many of brother Sonny's sermons over the years and know his thoughts and spirit quite well I think.
Sonny
I hope you also slept well last night Stephen.
Stephen
Yes, I did, thank you. You all sit down. Can I get you anything? Paul!
Paulette
Good to see you both again, Elder Helms, Elder Pyles. What would you like to drink?
Stephen (after prayer)
Sonny, let me respond to your last words from yesterday, since we ran out of time for me to do so.
What I am saying about the Hardshell group is not what is true of a few, but what characterizes them generally. I am not inferring anything from a limited sampling, but is the result of a very long list of evidences to prove what I say. I only gave you an inkling of such instances, but more could be added. You know, I got my undergraduate degree in Sociology and so I know about studying groups.
About love keeping no list of wrongs, I don't think Paul meant this to be applied to every case. God keeps a list of wrongs, does he not? Our consciences, by the word and Spirit of God, also keeps a list of wrongs until they are confessed, do they not? Paul often made a list of wrongs, did he not? Did not Jesus? Once sin is acknowledged and turned from, it is forgiven, and of course there is no list of wrongs kept. Did not Jesus say "if your brother repent, then forgive him?" Further, the Hardshells have kept a list of my wrongs, have they not? Of those of Eddie Garrett? Of those of the liberal brethren?
Further, Paul also said that charity is kind and I have had little kindness shown to me by the Hardshells. Others can testify the same. Charity is also not boastful, and yet I hear the Hardshells boast all the time about how they are the only ones who know the full truth, who are pure in doctrine and practice, and who therefore need no correction or repentance. And love, said Paul, does not dishonor others, and yet this is a common practice among the Hardshells. Paul says that love is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered. I hardly think these qualities characterize the Hardshells, at least not more than other Christian groups. Further, we are told that love does not delight in evil but rejoices in the truth. The Hardshells delight in opposing the truth on many issues.
Sonny
I guess I was thinking along the lines that it was you who showed a lack of charity, forbearance, long suffering, and that it was you who held a grudge against us, and refuse to forgive us of any errors or mistakes. What church does not have these same faults? But, your criticisms are not only excessive but often seen as nit picking.
Stephen
You mean the kind of charity and forbearance that was shown to me, dad, Lasserre and the liberal brethren, and Elder Fralick, not to mention many others? That kind of love that men like Keith Ellis manifests? I am sure you know of Ellis, being a pastor now or formerly in Texas. Do you know that he started spreading the lie on Facebook that I had been unfaithful to my first wife, and that I was excluded for it, and that I therefore have been out of the church ever since?
Brother Newell, you know this is not the case. When Elder Jeff Patterson years ago attempted the same tactic, in an attempt to smear my name, he even called you, remember? (Newell nods yes) Well, what did you tell me that you told him?
Newell
That it was untrue and to leave it alone.
Stephen
Well, someone ought to tell the Hardshell liars like Ellis to quit spreading such lies. I hate it Newell. Such vicious lies simply bring up things that ought not to be brought up. But, the fact is, Karon was excluded from Union Grove after our divorce. I was given a letter of dismissal and good standing by the church at Haws Run where I was a member. You remember. (Newell nods yes) It is sad. But, Ellis shows the Hardshell spirit, one that lacks love. I don't know why he just didn't try to answer the many things I have written about the Hardshells instead of using such tactics. His behavior was simply more proof that he was acting like a typical cult member protecting his cult's image.
Sonny
Again, we are not perfect. But, what you say about some people and some cases is not reflective of our people as a whole.
Stephen
Well, as we have agreed, God is our judge and we should fear and tremble at the thought of such a judgment and it ought to produce in us a sense of caution in how we talk about our brethren, criticize them, how we do apologetics, or defend the faith, and how we choose our battles. But, I would like to add that I think it wrong for Hardshells to say that people like Karon (Newell's daughter and my first wife) can never be taken back into the church or forgiven, because, as they say, "she is living in adultery." This practice of refusing baptism to such, and not allowing them membership in the church, is an example of that strict discipline I spoke about yesterday and which reveals a lack of the love of Christ. But, I do not mention this in order that we may spend time debating that issue, for we have other issues to discuss. But, perhaps at some future point, we could also debate this point. I hate that men like Ellis must result to smear tactics to oppose one who is writing against his errors.
Sonny
I don't condone what Ellis or Patterson attempted to do with regard to your divorce from Newell's daughter. They can defend themselves.
Newell
I wish they had not gone down that path.
Stephen
Newell, I think it shows how they cannot give a reply to my arguments against their errors and so, rather than deal with the argument, they make personal attacks. And, as I said, such behavior ironically proves my whole thesis. The Hardshell church is a cult and when their members and spokespersons act like cult members, it lends weight to my thesis. It is hypocrisy. Ellis wants to condemn me for throwing stones and yet he picks up stones and hurls them at me.
Sonny
I am not going to defend such individuals and specific cases. I would be a fool to try it. Such folks can defend themselves. I am defending the church as a whole.
Stephen
That is wise of you. And, I am glad you don't condone such tactics by men like Ellis. Also, why would Ellis even concern himself with me if my blogs were not doing some damage to the cult? In fact, if I put together a list of the comments I have received from the Hardshells over the past ten years or so while I have been writing on the Web, they would evince a spirit and attitude that is anything like the meek and gentle spirit of Jesus.
I find it ironic that such Hardshells could decry my supposed anger while spewing forth such anger towards me. Actually, I could point to other examples of hypocrisy, of being guilty of the things I am accused of, by such Hardshells. I am condemned for lacking love towards the old Baptists but nothing is said about my being loved by the Hardshells. If you all don't see it, surely God does, and also others outside the cult. I think brother Bradley has seen it, becoming the object of scorn and ridicule by most of today's Hardshells. As I said, Hardshells can show "much love," as they did to Bradley for years, but once you get on their bad side, they will look upon you with the severest enmity, with no desire to save you, but only to destroy you. You know Sonny, I wonder how you would behave if all of a sudden you did or said something that got under the skin of the Hardshell brotherhood? I wonder how soon that love for you would disappear also as it has to a large degree with Bradley?
Sonny
Well, again, I respond by saying that I am not going to enter into being an attorney for the defense for some of our brethren. They can defend themselves. Further, we never claimed to be free of sin, that we don't have jealous preachers, irritable and cantankerous folks, troublemakers, etc., and their presence is to be expected in the church from time to time. And, about Elder Bradley, he brought this on himself when he began to teach things contrary to the views of Primitive Baptists.
Stephen
You know, Sonny, I find the cases of you and Bradley interesting and revealing. Let me explain. I could add my dad, but for now will keep the cases to you and Bradley who have been the two leading figures in the Hardshell church for the past fifty years. You both spent many years together in sweet fellowship. You both did more to help save the Hardshells from death than any others. But, look at where both of you are now. You cannot now fellowship Bradley and consider him and the Cincinnati church in disorder. I think you and Bradley help demonstrate a lot of what I have been talking about in regard to the schismatic and separatist nature of the Hardshell denomination; About their lack of love, forgiveness, forbearance, long suffering, patience, good will, etc.
You know, for the first seventy five years or so of the Primitive Baptist denomination, those of your view and Bradley's view lived together in the church, and did not make their disagreement over means a test of fellowship. How unlike are today's Hardshells to their forefathers. The first Hardshells were indeed an intolerant bunch, but two hundred years later their offspring far outdo them in the spirit of intolerance.
Sonny
Well, some of our forefathers held to more errors that we do now. As I said, the church has been purged of errors. And, when someone today departs from the old paths, as did Bradley and those in the liberal movement, in regards to preacher schools, mission work, their belief in perseverance rather than preservation, and with some of them believing in gospel means in the new birth, we must cut them off. Further, the reason why our forefathers tolerated much is because they had those qualities that you say we lack as a denomination, such as love and forbearance. They tolerated because they were being patient and forbearing. But the time came when forbearance and a time of repentance came to an end and it then became time for the old church to finally cut off such errors and those who hold them.
Stephen
You know, with all this talk about the Hardshell church taking decades to purify herself, and that this fact accounts for the fact that she did not generally believe at the start all things right, as do today's Hardshells, I am reminded of the history of the Campbellites, which also was a history of purging as you say is your history. Actually, brother Bob Ross and I have written about the numerous similarities of these two groups. The first Campbellites were called "Reformers" and so were the first Hardshells in the Kehukee Association. And, you prove my point in saying that the church took decades to reform and purify itself. But, I see this as creating all kinds of problems for you in light of your Landmarker views on church succession and validity. You have a clean thing, a pure church, that has come from an unclean thing, or impure source. Your mother church believed in means, for example, but the daughter church does not. If she is pure now, she was corrupt then. If she was pure then, she is corrupt now.
Sonny
Well, I don't claim that an existing church that is pure in doctrine, but yet had in previous years held to corrupt doctrine, is not a valid church. That is an extreme view. But, we cannot be held accountable for the sins of our forefathers. They made mistakes and we have tried to learn from them. The Lord often uses controversy as a means in purifying the church of false doctrine, so that after such controversies the particular truth debated is much more definitive and clear than before. What I am concerned about is the present state of the church, not what errors our forefathers may have entertained for a time.
Stephen
Why don't we take a short break, so that we can be refreshed.
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