Winslett and Conversion (iii)

As before observed, Winslett made an entry in his "March to Zion" web page ( see here) after my first posting about his sermon on conversion in relation to Flint River PB's seventh article of faith. I want to cite the portions of that writing that deal with the subject of conversion and thus complete this short series on that issue. This will be followed by a response to other things he said in the same writing, or in his sermon, relative to being espoused and married to Christ. I will also respond to some other personal gossipy items that he introduces.

Winslett cited my words - "Winslet said Gill gave the same sense of conversion as did Flint River's article." He then responds with these words:

"Here are two examples of how Gill used the word convert:

"...And when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren: Peter was now a converted man, and had been for some years; but whereas he would fall by temptation into a very great sin of denying his Lord, and which was attended with such circumstances as made him look like an unconverted, and an unregenerate man; his recovery by the fresh exercise of faith in Christ, and repentance for his sins, is called conversion..." Gill on Peter's Conversion, Luke 22."

"...And one convert him;or turn him from his error, to truth again; for this designs not first conversion, or the turning of a sinner from darkness to light, from the power of Satan to God, and from the evil of a man's heart and ways and from a dependence on his own righteousness, to the Lord Jesus Christ, to look to him for righteousness, life, and salvation, which is wholly and entirely God's work, and not man's; but conversion after backslidings; for a restoration from a fallen condition is sometimes so called..." Gill on James 5:19"

In this rebuttal I will take each passage and analyze it first exegetically and then look at what Gill said thereon and then compare all the evidence gained with Winslett's views. First, in regard to

Peter's Conversion

"And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death. And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me." (Luke 22: 31-34)

First, let me notice a couple of things Gill said in the above citation (commentary). Gill says that the betrayal of Christ by Peter "made him look like an unconverted, and an unregenerate man." What does that say? What does a converted and regenerate man "look like" to Gill? To Winslett? It looks like he is a believer, follower, and confessor of Christ, according to scripture and Gill. Is that what he looks like to Winslett?

Gill also says that Peter's "recovery by the fresh exercise of faith in Christ, and repentance for his sins, is called conversion."

What are the constituent elements of true conversion according to Gill (whether it be first conversion, second, or third, etc.)? He mentions "faith in Christ" and "repentance for sins." Are these items not part of conversion in the understanding of Flint River's first members?

Now here is the part that Winslett left out, in his citation of Gill, with his typical and infamous Hardshell ellipsis - "and which was not his own act, but owing to the power and efficacy of divine grace; see (Jeremiah 31:18)." Is that what Winslett believes about Peter's conversion? Remember that the sin that needed to be turned from was his betrayal in saying "I know not the man." Does Winslett agree that this "conversion," one of the many "over and over again" conversions that Peter would supposedly experience in the future, was "not his own act, but owing to the power and efficacy of divine grace"?

The first members of Flint River, and even the ones who formed the first members of the anti mission faction that became known as "Flint River Primitive Baptist Church," would no doubt agree with Gill (and Winslett grants that this is true). So, it makes no real difference whether the conversion of which Christ speaks, in regard to Peter after his betrayal, is regeneration or first conversion, or one that followed that. The larger question is whether God had not only predestined and worked Peter's first conversion to Christ (when he said in Matthew 16 "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God") but whether he also worked this subsequent conversion. Gill, the first members of Flint River, Kevin and I, we all believe that Peter's conversion from his betrayal was not any less certain than his regeneration. That fact is proven from the very context. Let us notice it.

"Satan has desired to have you" even though I have appointed you to reign in the coming eternal kingdom of God (preceding verses). Will Satan succeed in taking possession of Peter when Christ has possession of him? Will it be left up to the will power and strength of Peter to determine the outcome of that battle for Peter's soul? What do the Scriptures say? What did the first Baptists who wrote Flint's article say on the matter? What answer would Winslett and today's Hardshells give to the question? What would Gill say? In fact, what did he say? Did he not say that Peter's conversion in this context, though not first conversion, is nevertheless necessary for him to stay saved?

Jesus says "when you are converted," not "if you will be converted." The conversion is certain. But, how could it be certain if it were left up finally to the will and effort of Peter? It is certain because Jesus said to Peter "I have prayed for you that your faith fail not."

In Peter's repentance, and in his returning to the Lord in contrition and faith, after his betrayal, his faith got the victory. He lost a battle, but won the war, or took the field. Did not John say that "whatever is born of God overcomes the world" and that "this is the victory that overcomes the world, our faith"? Peter got the victory because his faith was divinely given and sustained.

I would like to ask Winslett -

1) "Does Jesus pray for you to be converted over and over again in your sanctification?"
2) "If he does, will you then be as sure to go further from error and nearer the full truth?"

Next, let us notice

Conversion of "Brothers"

Gill in his commentary on James 5: 19,20

for this designs not first conversion, or the turning of a sinner from darkness to light, from the power of Satan to God, and from the evil of a man's heart and ways and from a dependence on his own righteousness, to the Lord Jesus Christ, to look to him for righteousness, life, and salvation, which is wholly and entirely God's work, and not man's; but conversion after backslidings; for a restoration from a fallen condition is sometimes so called..." 

Gill says that the conversion of which James speaks "designs not first conversion." Okay, but what exactly are the essential elements of "first conversion" ("regeneration" strictly defined) according to Gill? Does he not tell us in the above words? How can we miss it? It involves essentially the actual turning of a sinner both "from" something and "to" something. Gill says in regeneration or first conversion there is an actual "turning of a sinner from darkness to light," an actual turning "from the power of Satan," and a "turning to God," and an actual turning "from the evil of a man's heart and ways," and an actual turning of a man "from a dependence on his own righteousness," and a turning "to the Lord Jesus Christ," etc. Are these things involved in "first conversion" according to Winslett? I trow not.

Interesting is this citation from Gill, and ironically, from his Body of Divinity on the subject of "Conversion":

"...not all that were so converted in a doctrinal sense were true and real converts; some had the form of godliness without the power of it, had a name to live, and be called Christians, but were dead, and so not converted; thus the recovery of professors of religion from errors fallen into, to the acknowledgment of the truth, is called a conversion of them (Jas. 5:19, 20)."

Notice how Gill references James 5: 19, 20 at the end of his remarks about those who are not "real converts," not real Christians, though they be "called" such by others. Though they "had a name (or profession) that says that they are alive," they are actually spiritually "dead, and so not converted." 

Gill, in commenting upon verse 20, wrote:

"shall save a soul from death; not efficiently, but instrumentally, as in (1 Timothy 4:16) for otherwise Christ is the only Saviour; and he will be the means of saving "a soul", which is of more worth than a world; and that from death, the second death which lies in the separation of the soul from God, and in a sense of his wrath; which apostasy threatens with, and leads unto, if grace prevents not."

Since we admit that the first members of Flint River Baptist church would have followed Gill on the subject of conversion, then Winslett and Flint River have today departed from the faith of the fathers concerning article seven of her articles of faith.

There are lots of "brothers," "Christians," "disciples" of Jesus today, of every stamp and sect. Are they all saved? In saving many of the false professors among nominal Christianity we are indeed, as Gill said, instruments in saving souls from eternal death. By the way, how could the words "save a soul from death" and "hide a multitude of sins" be a "time salvation"?

I find it ironic that we are discussing James 5: 19,20 about "brothers" converting brothers from their religious errors in doctrine and practice when this is what I have been doing for many years (so has Kevin)! We are trying to save our Hardshell brothers (instrumentally) from death!

Winslet continued:

"There's a reason I love Gill's writings and read him so often. I know there are places we disagree (as with any two men this side of Glory), but I do very much appreciate his works."

I don't think you would like Gill so much if you would read more about what he said about predestination, effectual calling, perseverance, etc.! Keep on reading Gill! You might become a real "Old Baptist" if you do. We are praying for you as James 5 tells us.