Potter-Throgmorton Debate Review VI

Throgmorton's fifth speech (page 146)"

"Is Brother Potter responsible for the two-seeders among his people? or is Dr. Watson? He admits that they have a considerable party of two-seeders among them, in their denomination; and so does Dr. Watson. I will read some about them. This will not be so funny to the old brethren. O, no! They will not like to hear this. What do those two-seeders among the Hardshells believe? Dr. Watson's Old Baptist Test, page 292:

2. They believe there is an uncreated-self existent, eternal evil spirit, or devil, intelligent, wicked, cunning and antagonistic to God.

3. They say that the soul of Christ is uncreated and eternal.

4. They fancy that the souls of the children of God, or the elect, are uncreated and eternal and were always in actual union with God."

Now, Brother Potter talks pretty hard against that doctrine in his book. But I think they have quite a respectable portion who believe it.

8. "They deny the resurrection of the bodies of the just and unjust."

These two-seeders do, and there is a considerable party of them, among Mr. Potter's people, mark you. And what does Potter say about those that deny the resurrection? He says that they virtually deny the whole Gospel of Christ; they do not only say that Christ did not rise, but that we are yet in our sins." (166)

Throgmorton won this point throughout the debate. Potter had criticized Missionary Baptists for their broad "test of fellowship," indicating that the Hardshell "test of fellowship" was more narrow and restricted, and therefore were right for that reason. Besides the illogicalness of that argument, Throgmorton ably showed that the Hardshells in their formative years from 1832 up till 1887 (time of the debate) had a large, probably majority, of those who adhered to one or more of the doctrinal distinctions of the "two-seeders." It showed the hypocrisy of Potter and the Hardshells in such a line of thought.

Further, since Hardshells are "Landmarkers" on church succession and "baptismal authority," they must admit that their church and baptismal "genealogy" is corrupted by the presence of such heretics as the "two-seeders."

Notice that one of the tenets of "two-seedism" was that "they say that the soul of Christ is uncreated and eternal." Some not only argued that the "soul" of Christ was "uncreated and eternal" but so was his body or flesh! (This was the view of Isaac Watts the famous hymn writer) I wrote an article a few years back on how this item of "two-seedism" can be seen in at least one article of faith of one leading Hardshell Association, one that I used to be part of when I was a Hardshell. That article is titled "Bear Creek Two Seedism." There I wrote:

In the Bear Creek PB Association articles of faith, we have these words:

Art. 2. We believe in the man Jesus being the first of all God's creation and the pattern of all God's perfection in nature, providence, grace and glory, and in relative union with the divine word, and thus united with the whole Trinity. (see here)

Notice it is "the man" Jesus, with a body and soul, that "was the first of all God's creation."

Throgmorton's sixth speech (page 164-165)

"Now I began this discussion, my friends, to show you that the New Testament Baptists were missionary. I have shown that at the time of the division in 1832, among American Baptists, the Hardshells were the seceding party. I have shown you that prior to 1832 back to the origin of the American Baptists, the American Baptists were missionaries. I have crossed over the waters and have shown you that from the time persecution ceased, which was about 1689, the English Baptists were missionary. I have gone over to Wales in 1653, and have shown you that the Baptists there were missionary in character. I have called your attention to the fact that as soon as persecution allowed, they came together in an association and made it a missionary body. They resolved to return to the ancient custom, which they understood to be missionism.

Then I have shown you in this speech the character of the Waldensians relative to this question.

My friends, there never was a separate and distinct people such as the Hardshells of this country are until 1832. Never! They then took a new stand. They then took a new name. They then took a new position. They then adopted new tests of fellowship. They are the innovators; not we. Our people are Apostolic."

"Then he speaks of the broadness of the fellowship of the missionaries. Now what do Hardshells fellowship? "Two-seedism," non-resurrectionism, the idea that the dust man is born again, the idea that the Gospel must not be preached to every creature, the idea that the non-elect are not subjects of Gospel address. Your fellowship is rather broad in that direction, Brother Potter. If you cannot stand missionary societies and boards, which are for the purpose of of sending the Gospel to the heathen, you can fellowship a man that visits saloons. He says he did not mention visiting saloons. I wonder if they discipline them for visiting saloons! They can manage to look over all these things, but when it comes to a gathering on Sunday to teach the Bible, called a Sunday-school, or to sending the Gospel to those who have it not, they cannot stand that. That is unscriptural, this missionary effort--"away with it!" Yet he talks about the broadness of our fellowship!" (pg. 166)

Again, Throgmorton showed the glaring hypocrisy of the Hardshells in their "tests of fellowship" (which are nothing but an expression of "come not near to me for I am holier (more orthodox) than thou")

Throgmorton continued:

"I refer to Orchard, page 328, where he speaks of the English Baptists in 1693: --

"Easter week was appointed for the Western Association at Bristol. On April 19, 1693, divers brethren of the Baptist churches met at Bristol. The epistle from this body expresses considerable satisfaction at the union, communion and peace prevailing in their communities. They desire the co-operation of all the churches to further the great work of preaching the Gospel. Their epistle is signed by nineteen ministers."

Notice that "they desire the co-operation of all the churches to further the great work of preaching the Gospel." What was this great association engaged in? In the great work of preaching the Gospel. Remember that I have continually urged upon Potter that every principle that warrants the organization of an association, warrants the organization of a missionary society. He has not tried to meet this because he knows that he cannot meet it. Here was a missionary organization in 1693 desiring the co-operation of the churches to further the great work of preaching the Gospel. And yet he says there were no missionary organization up to 1792, in England!"  (pg. 168)

Quoting Orchard

"On the 16th day of April, 1694, the brethren met at Bristol. The epistle expressed the prosperity of the Western churches, but evinces real grief for the jealousies which had subdivided the London churches, and the low state of zeal among these communities. A request was made of the city brethren for many thousands of printed catechisms, as the country churches were in much want of them. Signed by fifteen ministers." (168)

When will the Hardshells quit lying about their history and of the history of the Baptists in general? When will they stop charging Mission Baptists with innovations in Baptist life when historical facts prove otherwise? The evidence clearly shows that the Hardshells were the party to bring in things new into the Baptist family.