Almost forty years ago I first met Elder Sonny Pyles in the home of my ex father in law, Elder Newell Helms (still living). If he follows tradition, he will be here again this March as he was forty years ago and every year since, with maybe an exception or two. I wrote about "Visiting with Sonny Pyles" in THIS POSTING. I don't think he will visit me if he comes here this March. But, for the sake of fun, and hopefully too for better reasons, I post this imaginary visit from Sonny at my home here in Monroe. He arrives an hour or so before lunch. This first installment will give our conversation for what we will call "the morning session."
The following is imaginary
Knock at the Door
Stephen
Brother Pyles! It is so good to see you! It has been many years since we first met! Thirty years since I saw you.
Sonny
Sure has.
Stephen
Paulette (my wife), Sonny is here.
Sonny, this is my wife Paulette. Paulette you remember brother Pyles don't you?
Paulette
Oh yes. Good to see you Elder Pyles.
Sonny
Good to see you too.
Stephen
Sonny, sit down and let us talk. Care for anything to drink? Some coffee?
Sonny
I'll take some coffee, thanks.
Stephen
Well, brother Sonny, I was hoping the Lord would allow us to see each other again in this life. Do you know that it was in this month, forty years ago that I first met you? We were at Elder Helm's house. That is when Elder Jarrel and Stuart Crane flew to NC to visit with you?
Sonny
Oh yes I remember. I believe that was forty years ago.
Stephen
It is a shame about Jarrel and his going off into error about the sonship of Jesus Christ. He was a close friend of yours at one time.
Sonny
Yes, that was very tragic.
Stephen
I was glad that when Jarrel's view on that topic became known that you wrote against it and in favor of the historic Baptist view that Christ's sonship is eternal and is a term denoting his divinity.
Sonny
Thank you
Stephen
You know Sonny, I was shocked to learn from years of historical research into the history of the "Primitive Baptists" that many of the first Hardshells held serious errors regarding the Trinity and on the sonship of Christ.
Sonny
I don't doubt that, seeing that Primitive Baptists, or Hardshells as you want to call us, have believed about everything in the world at one time or another. God has been purifying his church since the time of the Black Rock Address and it took us awhile to rid ourselves of such errors. Thankfully, today the church is purer in doctrine and practice than ever before, having very few remaining "isms" to fight.
Stephen
Well, I agree with the first part, for truly the history of the Hardshells shows it has had great difficulty with "isms" over the years. And, even now I believe. As far as the "Primitive Baptists" of today being purer in doctrine than ever before, I would have to take issue with that. But, before we talk more fully on that point, let me return for a moment to the specific errors that were prevalent in the 19th century regarding the Trinity. Did you know that Elder Wilson Thompson denied the doctrine of the Trinity as did Elder Trott?
Sonny
Yes, I knew that. So what? As I said, the church began a purification process and it took many years to get rid of the chaff and the false teachers.
Stephen
Well, again, we will save that point for later. Okay? Did you know that Elder Joshua Lawrence denied the eternal sonship of Christ?
Sonny
No, I did not know that.
Stephen
Yes, and you will never read that in Hassell's history nor any where else in modern Hardshell literature because they would just as soon that people did not know that about them.
Sonny
I don't doubt that.
Stephen
Wilson Thompson was a Sabellian, did you know that?
Sonny
Yes
Stephen
Did you know that he also believed like many other first generation Hardshells that Christ, in either his human soul or body, was the first of all God's created beings?
Sonny
Yes, I know something about that.
Stephen
Yes, this was really part of the "two seed" ideology. When Christ was created, before the creation of the world, his people were created with him and so existed with him then.
Sonny
Well, you know I live among the last remaining two seeders in Texas and know their beliefs?
Stephen
Yes, I knew that. Did you also know that all the first Hardshells believed that one was born again by faith, and that faith came by the preaching of the gospel?
Sonny
I know some of them did. Some of them did not. As I said, the church was being purified and the church finally rid herself of the gospel regeneration heresy.
Stephen
Well, before we get into discussing this and other doctrine, let us pray that the Holy Spirit be with us. Brother Sonny, will you pray?
Thanks brother. Are you hungry? We will be eating soon and we would love for you to stay and eat with us. Can you stay long? Can you spend the night?
Sonny
Yes, I can stay awhile but have plans for the night. Thanks.
Stephen
Sonny, I just want to say that these past forty years, since I first met you, have taken us in different directions. Who could have foreseen them?
Sonny
Indeed. By the way, how is your dad?
Stephen
Well, though his outward man is getting weaker and weaker, his mind and spirit are strong. He will be 83 in February. How old are you now?
Sonny
I am ## years old. I have not seen or talked to your dad in many years. Give him my regards when you talk to him.
Stephen
I surely will. Sonny, you know I sent you by regular mail several years ago my response to your sermon titled "will all the elect hear the gospel?" I gave you several months to send me a reply, but not getting one from you, I went ahead and posted it on the Internet, hoping that at least some other Hardshell would attempt to refute it in your place. One person I did engage with, Jason Brown, who I think you know. I know David knows him. By the way, how is David?
Sonny
David is fine. He pastors a church in Mississippi. About answering your lengthy writing I did not feel it would be of any benefit to me or to the Primitive Baptists. I have knowledge of your writings on the Internet. David and others send me certain of your writings. I have to say that I agree with a lot of what you say. Yes, I do know Jason. In fact, it is your writings that are a leading reason why I am here. Are you not done? Can't you stop now after years of writing against us so that you can finally go on to something else? It is obvious to all that you do not really care about the Primitive Baptists that you are just writing out of spite.
Stephen
It is good to hear that David and his family are well. I am glad that you have at least made this private visit so that we can can talk openly and frankly without fear. You know I respect you. I enjoyed your fellowship and the visit in your home years ago. 1980 I think it was. You also know my personal history with the Hardshells. Do you also know the lies that some have spread about me in recent times? I want you to know that I do not have anything but love for the Hardshell people. In fact, if I did not care for them, I doubt that I would have expended so much labor towards their restoration.
Sonny
Yes, I do remember how your were mistreated and I did all I could to help and defend you. But you know as well as I do that the hatred for your dad was so great that it could not stop the animosity towards his son. I hate that. But, as I said, I did all I could do to help you. But, you also brought some of this on yourself by your haughty spirit.
Stephen
Yes, but sadly, you were sympathetic to the anti Eddie Garrett crowd, and I think that with you, as well as with Harold Hunt, you all hated his "haughty spirit" also, thinking that he wanted to be some kind of pope for the old Baptists. Also, the issue of the origin of Satan was a most interesting controversy, was it not?
Sonny
Well, I think that is basically true. The Bible does say "pride goes before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall." As far as the origin of the Devil, you know I don't believe he was ever in the eternal heaven?
Stephen
I think we are all proud to some extent, don't you? Further, I find it remarkable that in regard to 1) my mistreatment by the Hardshells, and 2) the heated words and cruel actions by those of your view on the origin of the Devil (and who made it a test of fellowship) manifested during that controversy, and 3) the mistreatment by the Hardshells after my wife proved unfaithful to me and since I left them and began writing against them, that the one thing that was nearly totally absent was charity. Further, along this line, I later found it remarkable in reading of the "marks of the church" that the Hardshells speak about, that not one of those marks was the mark of love. How can the "Primitive Baptist Church" be what she claims to be and yet lack the greatest mark? I do not find love as the leading characteristic of the Hardshell cult.
Sonny
Wow, that is lot to digest and respond to. Yes, we are all proud, but you could have shown much more meekness than you did. The same with your dad. And, as far as love is concerned, as I said, I agree that you were largely mistreated by many. But many, like myself, did much to help you. Yes, the old Hardshells can bite and devour one another, but I hardly see how the presence of some of these kinds of brethren nullifies us from being the true church of Christ. Further, it is kind of hard to love someone who is writing out of so much anger towards us.
Stephen
Well, this is good. We are talking about charity or love. That is probably more important than us talking about the fine points of theology. If we find the place where the love of Christ reigns in hearts, we will have found the "church of Christ." Don't you agree? Actually, it was this very realization that got me off the track of Hardshellism and away from its doctrinal errors. I first realized that this people had no real Christian love. They had a cult love for their own, but once you get on their bad side, they are hateful people. This began me to think that they might be a cult. After this, the Lord began to show me one by one their doctrinal errors. Further, about my writing in anger against the Hardshells, that may be true to some extent. All anger is not wrong. We are to hate the doctrine of the Nicolaitans. I hate the doctrine of the Hardshells, especially those of the modern kind. But, I love the people enough to witness to them and it is in order to save their souls.
Sonny
Again, that is a lot to respond to. I do agree that love should be viewed as a mark of the church. But, it is love to God and his word first and foremost. It is in love to God that we deal with apostates from and enemies to the faith and attack their heresies. As far as your wandering away from the church is concerned, and your hating us, and about us being a cult, I will say this. I don't doubt that many Primitive Baptists have been cult like, but so are many other groups. We can't be a cult because we have no cult leader(s) and we do not force people to stay among us.
Stephen
I am glad that you agree about love being a distinguishing mark of the Lord's visible church. The question then is, do the Primitive Baptist show the kind of love that Jesus, the apostles, and the first Christians, possessed and manifested in their practices? I do not think that they do, and if put to the test, I believe I can prove this. Briefly, however, let me lay out the general case.
They show they lack the love of Christ in 1) their lack of concern for the eternal salvation of their fellow men, and 2) in their denial that God loves all men and sincerely desires that they be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth, and 3) in the severity of their discipline upon weak and erring disciples, and 4) in their strict rules of church fellowship and holier than thou attitude, and 5) in their stubbornness in listening to criticisms of their beliefs and practices, and 6) in their refusal to allow others liberty to preach or believe anything that will "disturb the peace," being overly intolerant, and guilty of "pointing the finger," a thing God dislikes, and 7) in their language towards the "Missionary Baptists" for the past 180 years which is anything but love, and 8) in their opposition to other Christians cooperating, in the church or out of it, in teaching children the Scriptures, or in having bible classes to help teach adults the Gospel, or to evangelize the heathen, and 9) condemn godly men who have sacrificed to go to seminary as being men who preach for filthy lucre and speaking evil of Christians who have gone to dangerous places in the world to tell sinners about Jesus, etc.
I hardly think that such a history and description is one of love, and love being the chief mark of the presence of Christ with a body of people, then the Hardshells cannot be that body.
Paulette walks in and says:
Dinner is ready, you all come.
Sonny
Well, Stephen, that is a lot to respond to, let me address it after we eat.
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