Potter-Throgmorton Debate Review V

For the previous postings in this series see

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Elder Potter's 4th speech (pg. 137-38)

"He reads a lengthy history of the union of the churches that finally became the Kehukee Association. The general and regular Baptists were united together, and some of them, the regular Baptists at least, were taken in with their doctrine and Baptism; but then he goes on to state that when among them, their labor produced a reformation in those things. That churches were organized anew and adopted the doctrine of grace; and that a renovation finally took place in all the churches among them, until they were ready to adopt the Philadelphia confession of faith, and did do it. That is his own witness. Hence they were established on the same doctrine they believe to day. They were established upon the same confession of faith they have now, the Philadelphia confession of faith. He says they are Hardshells now. Now I just challenge him to tell when they became Hardshells. Give us the date when they turned that somersault. If they were not always Hardshells, he admits that they are Hardshells now. Again, on the subject of conviction and conversion, he says that I denied that the Spirit ever did use means in the conversion of a sinner. I did not say it. I said the Spirit operated or worked independently of means. I did not say, "without means." But I deny that it is limited to them. I want that distinctly understood; that I deny the doctrine that the Spirit never operates only where the Gospel is preached. The missionaries preach that doctrine. No one else does. But if it is not dependent on means, then it is not dependent on the preaching of the Gospel, or the influence of the church, or the Bible. If it is, then salvation is limited to where the Gospel is preached, or the Bible is known. That is his doctrine."

This is an important citation from this famous 1887 debate and anyone who is a student of the history of the "Primitive" or "Old School" (aka "Hardshells") Baptist denomination will recognize its importance, especially as it relates to the change in doctrine that was occurring among the Hardshells in the second half of the 19th century.

The Transition View

Potter in this debate does not deny that the Spirit may sometimes, though not always, convert the sinner by means. Today's Hardshells will deny that God ever uses the means of the Gospel or word of God in converting the sinner.

Potter condemned the view of the Missionaries that the Spirit never converted apart from the means of the Gospel, calling it an extreme. But, he seems clearly to deny the view of today's Hardshells who go to the other extreme in saying that God never uses those means in conversion. (And in this debate Potter is using the term "conversion" and "salvation" in the sense of new birth and eternal salvation) Potter says that he takes the middle ground which says God may sometimes use those means and sometimes not. That seems to me to be a clear "transition view" between the views of Potter's forefathers and associates (who espoused means, men like Watson and Fain) and those of the 20th century.

Taking this view would give support to the anti means wing of the denomination (growing in size in 1887) and yet not completely alienate those who still retained a belief in means. Consider also this supposition. If Potter had taken the extreme view (that God never converts by means) he would have no support from those PBs who still believed in means and would show that he was clearly at odds with Watson, Fain, Clark, etc., men who preceded him by a few years.

This transition view accomplished its purpose of creating a bridge from the PBs of the first half of the 19th century till the beginning of the 20th.

Following the above words of Potter he added these words:

"I quoted his own confession of faith of the Franklin Association yesterday. In that they say that the influence of the Spirit of God is co-extensive with the proclamation of the Gospel. Does he find such sentiments as that among the Philadelphia Association, the Kehukee, Charleston, or any of these associations that he has been reading to us about? Nothing of that sort. Did any of these old brethren believe that the salvation of God was limited to where the Bible was known? The Missionary Baptists preach it, and they preach eternal damnation of all that portion of mankind that never hear the Gospel, or have any knowledge of the Bible."

Why would Potter bring up what those old Associations believed about means? They all taught that the heathen were lost without the gospel.