Monday, October 3, 2011

Hit and Run?

Brother Kevin Fralick recently wrote another good article against the Hardshell doctrinal novelty titled ""Time Salvation," Historical Criteria for Conditional Time Salvation." See here for Kevin's posting.

One Hardshell brother responded. His name is Tim Herrin. Tim lives here in my hometown and is a member of High Hill Primitive Baptist church, probably the oldest in the county, established in 1784. High Hill church is in the Bear Creek Association, established in 1832 as a result of the division over missions, et als. I attended their annual association a couple weeks ago. I got a copy of their association minutes for 2010 and on the front cover I see that Tim was the church clerk for the association that year.

Tim Herrin left this comment to Kevin's article (emphasis mine - SG).

"John Gill believed in "conditional time salvation". In his comments on I Tim 4:16 (Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.) Gill says, "a minister by taking heed to himself, and doctrine, saves himself from the pollutions of the world, from the errors and heresies of false teachers, from the blood of all men, and from all just blame in his ministry". That is as clear and plain a statement of conditional time salvation as was ever written or spoken. John Gill would not have written it if he did not believe it. It was true when Gill wrote it, and it is just as true today."

Brother Kevin Fralick responded with this comment.


The specifics of which Gill mentions here as to from what Timothy was to be saved are not be seen as something independent of eternal salvation, but part of it. In being saved with an eternal salvation there would be an implicit preservation from the world’s pollutions, heresies, etc. Paul has reference to Timothy's ongoing salvation commenced in the new birth (Philip. 1:6).

But why did you not quote Gill’s comments on the remainder of the passage?

And them that hear thee; by being an example to them in doctrine and conversation, a minister is the means of saving and preserving those that attend on him, from erroneous principles, and immoral practices; and by faithfully preaching the Gospel to his hearers, he is instrumental in their eternal salvation; for though Jesus Christ is the only Saviour, the only efficient and procuring cause of salvation, yet the ministers of the Gospel are instruments by which souls believe in him, and so are saved; the word preached by them, being attended with the Spirit of God, becomes the ingrafted word, which is able to save, and is the power of God unto salvation; and nothing can more animate and engage the ministers of the word to take heed to themselves and doctrine, and abide therein, than this, of being the happy instruments of converting sinners, and saving them from death;”

He mentions that ministers are instrumental in the eternal salvation of hearers of the gospel.

Do you agree with the learned theologian here?"

Please reconsider Tim."

After giving Tim a few days to respond, and yet not getting any response from Tim, I searched the Internet and found information on Tim. I then left Tim this comment.

"Dear Tim:

I am guessing you are the Tim Herrin who lives in Union County and go to High Hill church?

Did you know that High Hill church and the other churches of the Bear Creek Association originally believed in means in regeneration?

Elder Hosea Preslar was a member and pastor of Lawyer's Spring church in the early 19th century and he believed in means.

See my posting here

Elder Jacob Helms, the pastor of High Hill at the time of the division in 1832 was an associate of Preslar. The old churches in the Bear Creek ass. all accepted the Philadelphia Confession of faith, which taught means in being born again. So, how can you claim to be "primitive" when you do not believe what the old pastors of High Hill and Lawyer's Spring churches believed?"

Now, I find it amazing that Tim has opted out of making another comment. I see it as another "hit and run" tactic common to the Hardshell cult, and one I have mentioned before. Recently, on my baptistgadfly blog, Hardshell Mark Green made a comment, I responded, but then he opted out of responding. "Hit and run"! I could give numerous examples of this tactic of today's Hardshells. Why do they not want to know the truth? Why will they not defend their views? Why do they hide and flee? The answer is quite obvious to all who are not in this cult. The Hardshells are a brainwashed people, biased and bigoted, who see themselves as peculiarly Jesus' "little flock," his "kingdom" on earth, and such a view of themselves is evidence of their cult status.

Today's Hardshells ought to be ashamed of themselves. Their revered forefathers would not even countenance their present group state of mind. They need to heed the proverb that says:

"He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him." (Prov. 18: 17)

I consider myself a "neighbor" and friend to the Hardshells and I am "searching him out" for his good, for his conversion to truth. (James 5: 18, 19)

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