Sunday, May 6, 2012

This Ought To Settle The Matter

Jason Brown said:

"This fact agrees and establishes that just because the sleepers came out of where the dead were does not and cannot mean they were dead themselves. They are sleeping when they are called upon to awake, not dead."  (see here)

The following are all the scriptures that speak of being "from," "of," or "among" the dead.  Some of them use the preposition "ek" (out) and some use "apo" (away from).  Many of them are of the same Greek construction as Eph. 5: 14 - "ek ton nekron."  Let us see if any of these passages speak of living people being among the dead.  Let us see how being "among the dead" means that one is dead.

"...the Son of man be risen again from the dead."  (Matt. 17: 9)

Was Christ physically alive while he was among the dead? 

"But as touching the resurrection of the dead."  (Matt. 22: 31)

Is being resurrected "from among the dead" the same as coming to life? 

"He is risen from the dead."  (Matt. 27: 64)

"...he is risen from the dead."  (Matt. 28: 7)

"John the Baptist was risen from the dead." (Mark 6: 14)

"...he is risen from the dead."  (Mark 6: 16)

"...till the Son of man were risen from the dead."  (Mark 9: 9)

"...questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean."  (Mark 9: 10)

"...when they shall rise from the dead..."  (Mark 12: 25)

"John was risen from the dead..."  (Luke 9: 7)

"...if one went unto them from the dead..."  (Luke 16: 30)

"...will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."  (Luke 16: 31)

These two references are from the story of the rich man and Lazarus who were dead, and therefore among the dead.  To go out from or away from the dead means to come to life, to be quickened or resurrected (to rise).

"...the resurrection from the dead..."  (Luke 20: 35)

" rise from the dead the third day..."  (Luke 24: 46)

"When therefore he was risen from the dead..."  (John 2: 22)

"Lazarus also, whom he had raised from the dead."  (John 12: 9)

"Lazarus out of his grave, and raised him from the dead, bare record."  (John 12: 17)

"...that he must rise again from the dead."  (John 20: 9)

"...after that he was risen from the dead."  (John 21: 14)

"...whom God hath raised from the dead..."  (Acts 3: 15)

"...preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead."  (Acts 4: 2)

"God raised from the dead..."  (Acts 4: 10)

"...after he rose from the dead."  (Acts 10: 41)

"But God raised him from the dead..."  (Acts 13: 30)

"...he raised him up from the dead..."  (Acts 13: 34)

"...and risen again from the dead..."  (Acts 17: 3)

" that he hath raised him from the dead."  (Acts 17: 31)

"...when they heard of the resurrection of the dead..."  (Acts 17: 32)

"...of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question."  (Acts 23: 6)

"...that there shall be a resurrection of the dead..."  (Acts 24: 15)

"Touching the resurrection of the dead I am called in question..."  (Acts 24: 21)

"...he should be the first that should rise from the dead..."  (Acts 26: 23)

" the resurrection from the dead..."  (Rom. 1: 4)

"...him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead..."  (Rom. 4: 24)

"Christ was raised up from the dead..."  (Rom. 6: 4)

"Christ being raised from the dead..."  (Rom. 6: 9)

"...those that are alive from the dead..."  (Rom. 6: 13)

" him who is raised from the dead..."  (Rom. 7: 4)

"...raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead..."  (Rom. 8: 11)

" bring up Christ again from the dead..."  (Rom. 10: 7)

"God hath raised him from the dead..."  (Rom. 10: 9)

"...but life from the dead?"  (Rom. 11: 15)

"Christ be preached that he rose from the dead..."  (I Cor. 15: 12)

"But now is Christ risen from the dead..."  (I Cor. 15: 20)

"...and God the Father, who raised him from the dead..."  (Gal. 1: 1)

"...when he raised him from the dead..."  (Eph. 1: 20)

"...the firstborn from the dead..."  (Col. 1: 18)

"...who hath raised him from the dead."  (Col. 2: 12)

"...whom he raised from the dead..."  (I Thess. 1: 10)

"Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead..."  (II Tim. 2: 8)

"Accounting that God [was] able to raise [him] up, even from the dead..."  (Heb. 11: 19)

"...that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus..."  (Heb. 13: 20)

" the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead..."  (I Peter 1: 3)

"...that raised him up from the dead..."  (I Peter 1: 21)

"...the first begotten of the dead..."  (Rev. 1: 5)

None of these passages speak of the living coming out from among the dead.  None of them imply that the living are among the dead and are simply being called to separate themselves from the dead.  In all cases "rising from the dead" denotes coming to life.  It never speaks of the living coming out from among the dead.  Now let us notice the passage in dispute.

"Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light."  (Eph. 5: 14)

To interpret the "rising" from "among the dead," in this passage, as not involving a resurrection to life is to give the words "from the dead" a signification that it has no where else in Scripture.  This should settle the case for any honest interpreter.  I challenge Jason to show us where rising from the dead means that the living are among the dead. 

Brown wrote:

"Garrett's insistence that 'among the dead' is never used in the bible where those 'among the dead' are not actually dead is a non-cogent argument when one gives this text an honest appraisal - this text alone proves it."

Then let Jason show us which of the NT passages uphold his view that "among the dead" does not equate with being dead!

In a prior posting (see here) Brown wrote:

""Ek" means 'out of', so the rendering is, "Awake thou that sleepest, and arise out of the dead". 'Dead' is in the genitive case, and is the object of the preposition 'out of' (ek). The relevance of 'dead' as an adjectival noun in this prepositional phrase is to show the origin of those that sleep, as Strong's puts it, "suggesting from the interior outward", in a general way. It does not imply that the ones who sleep are dead, and it is unlikely this was the focus of Paul because the phrase 'out of the dead' is meant to primarily convey where the subject arose from, not an emphasis on the ontology of them that sleep."

This is all nonsense.  I never argued that "among the dead" in Greek denoted that the ones among the dead were dead.  It is the usage in Scripture that shows that to be "among the dead" means that one is dead!  And, all the Scriptures cited where "among the dead" is used, show that the one among the dead is dead.  Why would the living be among the dead?  The living are "among the living."

The passage I referred to where the angels asked - "why seek ye the living among the dead" was conclusive to any unbiased mind.  There is a contrast between "among the living" and "among the dead."  To be among the former means that one is alive and to be among the latter means one is dead. 

In the same posting Brown wrote:

"If it was the intention of Paul to emphasize that the sleepers were, in fact, spiritually dead, nekros would not be controlled by "ek", and "ek ton nekron" would not be modifying 'rise up'. Paul would simply have used nekros, and not katheudo at all, as nekros was already employed by Paul in Ephesians 2:1 to refer to the state of death from which the unregenerate actively commit sin."

This is more nonsense!  Let him apply his reasoning to all the other passages where "among the dead" is used and see if it works!

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