Monday, April 13, 2015

What do you say?

In my writings against the absurdities of Hardshellism I have often shown how the Hardshell understanding of "regeneration" (in relation to being convicted of sin) makes the Holy Spirit into a liar. This argument was made by brother Throgmorton against Hardshell debater John R. Daily, as I shall show.  First, however, let me cite from chapter 18 of my book on the Hardshell cult to remind the reader of the argument

Sarrels says again:

"True conviction is exclusively the experience of the quickened or regenerate man. Like conversion to which, under the working of the Holy Spirit, it leads, conviction results from regeneration. He who is convicted of sin sees himself to be a guilty sinner (BUT IS HE REALLY?) in the sight of God, and perceives that his own righteousness is as "filthy rags." He knows and feels that if he is ever saved it can be only by the grace of God. With no righteousness of his own to plead, this broken, penitent wretch--wretch in his own sight, but not in God's sight--is ready to turn to God." (ibid)

Did you notice that? "Not in God's sight." In other words, the convicted soul is not really what the Holy Spirit is convincing him that he is! One senses that Sarrels felt the weight of such a "reductio ad absurdum," for he writes in closing these words.

"...the quickened person in conviction sees himself NOT as he actually is, but as he would be without the grace of God." (ibid)

Can you believe that bunk? A man under conviction is being convicted of only hypothetical sin! He is not being convicted of actual sin! The Holy Spirit is telling the convicted soul a lie when he tells him he is lost and condemned! The Holy Spirit lies when he convinces such an one that he is unclean and in need of pardon and justification! Unbelievable!

Notice this from Dr. Danbury.

"Dr. Danbury on the Daily-Throgmorton Debate" (emphasis mine SG)

"The Daily-Throgmorton debate has come and gone, and I, having had the privilege of hearing every word of the same, thought it might be of some use to those who did not hear it, to say something of my impressions of the same.

As to the men, Mr. Daily is a fine appearing man, and speaks with force, as well as eloquence. He impresses one with the thought that he wants to be known as a scholar and to this end he endeavors to make it appear that what he says is not to be called in question. He is not clear however in his statement of the position he takes, nor does he appear to get the force of his opponent's arguments. He frequently misquotes, as well as misapplies the argument of his opponent. He does not seem to care for the rules of controversy, as he did not, in this discussion, attempt to define his position at any time. His affirmative speeches were delivered principally from manuscript which he read quite well.

Brother Throgmorton on the other hand is clear in statement, quick to comprehend an argument, logical from first to last. He does not deal in sophistry, but from the start goes to the question in debate telling what he means by each term in the proposition that all may know what the point at issue is.

Mr. Daily in this debate gave more time to what was not in the questions being debated than he did to the questions under consideration. It appeared to me that he was not satisfied with the questions as stated. It frequently occurred that he would state what ought to have been the question instead of trying to prove his position.
Yet he had signed both propositions as satisfactory and spent four days trying to make the people believe that he should have been allowed to discuss something else. It frequently seemed he made statements that would involve him in the most absurd positions.

As to the arguments on each side it was in my judgment one of the greatest victories for the position held by Brother Throgmorton that could have been gained. Some of the positions taken by Mr. Daily were that the Gospel was to call out those for whom Christ died, and to make known to them the fact that they were God's children by exciting in them a conviction for sin and making them know that they were vile sinners, while at the same time they were really born of God and the elect of God.

Brother Throgmorton showed that if this was the case that the Holy Spirit made them believe a lie, to which Daily did not reply. I wish that all of our Baptist people could have heard this discussion for themselves as I did."  (From the book section titled "FIFTY DEBATES," page 119.

"to which Daily did not reply"!  Says it all, does it not?

And what about Sarrel's attempt to solve the difficulty?  Laughable, is it not?  Very sad too to see such blindness and deception.  It is the mindset of cult members.


Chad O'Quinn said...

Brother Stephen,

I have enjoyed reading the various posts that you and Bro. Kevin have written.

You both have done much study and research and it shows in your articles.

Thank you and I look forward to reading more.

In Christ's name,
Brother Chad O'Quinn (GA)

Stephen Garrett said...

Dear Chad:

Glad to hear from you and to know you are being edified.

God bless