Jason Brown, in initially responding to my former posting, said:
"Peter is saying that the gospel is preached to the spiritually dead so that they might live according to God in the spirit."
He makes a big issue out of the use of the subjunctive mood signified by the word "might." But, the question of doubt about the certainty of the effect of the preaching in producing life in God, per the subjuntive mood, does not negate the fact that the Gospel was preached with the purpose of bringing men to the divine life. The subjunctive mood does express purpose. What is the purpose of preaching the Gospel? Jason says "so that they might live." And to this Peter would agree, as I also would. If he believes this, then why is he still an anti-means Hardshell?
I will give Jason this to wrestle with in regard to his remarks about the subjunctive mood. It is also from the epistles of Peter. Peter wrote:
"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring (dative case, subjunctive mood) us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit." (I Peter 3: 18)
Does the subjunctive mood in this passage imply purpose? Does it imply doubt and uncertainty? We will be waiting to hear from Jason on these questions. We look to be educated.
Jason also wrote:
"...the end of preaching the gospel is to persuade men of the salvation it reveals and of the terror of the Lord (2 Cor. 5:11) in regard to man's standing before God without Christ."
The Gospel is intended "to persuade men of the salvation it reveals" but not to persuade them to believe it for salvation? How is that logical? The Gospel is intended to "persuade men of the terror of the Lord" but not to induce them to repent and beg forgiveness? The Gospel is intended to "persuade men in regard to man's standing before God without Christ" but not so that they might be saved and converted? What a weak "apology" from our "apologist"!
Jason wrote:
"...and ends his discussion on the contrast of them in verses 3-5 by saying that the gospel is an instrument of judgment to discern the quick and the dead just as God himself will so judge and discern them at the final judgment."
"It was for the purpose of discernment that Peter preached the gospel to all men, even those that seemed to be dead in riotous living so that they might be judged in regard to whether they were of God or not."
"...the same purpose for the gospel here in time - to discern the sheep from the goats."
In these words Jason interprets Peter's words to simply say that reception of the Gospel reveals who was already saved, not only to men but to God! He interprets the word "judge" as meaning to "discern" or "to find out," who is saved and who is lost. Jason said - "God himself will so judge and discern them at the final judgment." God does not "discern" them now? God does not "know them that are his" even now? Jason says that the word "judge" means the same thing when it speaks of men judging (discerning) the saved from the lost and when it speaks of God doing the same.
Thus, Jason says that the only purpose of preaching the Gospel is not to actually save people, but only for revealing who are saved and who are lost. But, the Scriptures are clear in affirming that the Gospel is the means God uses to save.
Peter refers to "the quick and the dead" in verse 5. In the Greek the definite article is absent and so should say - "judge both living and dead." The only other place where this is said are in the words of Paul, who wrote:
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom." (II Tim. 4: 1)
These verses are affirming the same thing as Peter in I Peter 4: 5. That verse reads as follows:
"Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead."
The words of Paul also omit the definite article even though the KJV puts the article in the translation. Both passages speak of the final day of judgment, that judgment that occurs "at his appearing and his kingdom." Both these passages are talking about physical death, not spiritual death. The passages speak of God judging both those who are alive (I Thess. 4: 16, 17) at the time of Christ' return and those who have lived and died. It is true that Christ will judge all, both the spiritually alive and the spiritually dead, but this is not the meaning of either Peter or Paul.
Besides, whether those who are "dead" are the physically dead or spiritually dead, is not pertinent to a discussion of Hardshellism and anti-meanism.
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