Two Seed Baptist Ideology (VIII)

There are several difficult questions to answer when it comes to discussing human souls. One of those concerns their origin. Another concerns defining a soul. Another concerns how the soul is related to the spirit of a human. As it relates to the origin of souls, there are basically three views. One says that souls were in some sense created in Adam and reproduced somehow when the body is reproduced. This view is called traducianism. In this view a soul begets another soul as a body begets another body. Another view says that each soul is newly created when a body begins to be formed in the womb. This is the creationist view. A third view says that souls preexisted the creation of the world. In the history of the church there have been theologians who have believed each of these three views. The belief in the preexistence of souls however has been generally rejected by the Christian world.

Two Seedists believe in the preexistence of souls. Though there are some differences of opinion among them on certain tenets of Two Seedism, yet they all affirm the preexistence of the souls or spirits of all the elect, who are believed to have been begotten at the same time that Christ was begotten in eternity past. Some will say that all the souls of the non-elect were likewise always a part of Satan, the counterpart of Christ. Satan, in their minds, was never begotten or created by God. All the non-elect are "the seed of the Devil" in the same way the elect are the seed of God or Christ.

Got Questions web page asks "How are human souls created?" (See here) and gives the following answer (emphasis mine):

"A third view, but one that lacks biblical support, is the concept that God created all human souls at the same time, and “attaches” a soul to a human being at the moment of conception. This view holds that there is sort of a “warehouse of souls” in heaven where God stores souls that await a human body to be attached to. Again, this view has no biblical support, and is usually held by those of a “new age” or reincarnation mindset."

Many Two Seeders will say that all the souls of the elect were created simultaneously in Christ when he was begotten some time in eternity past. But, you also at times hear them say that all souls were created in Adam. They will then say that as all human souls were created in Adam so were all the souls of the elect created in Christ the second Adam. They also say that as Eve was in Adam before her creation proper, so too was the bride of Christ in Christ before the world began.

In "Systematic Theology" by Louis Berkhof, we have these comments in section II, "The Constitutional Nature of Man" (See here emphasis mine) and under the sub-heading "B. THE ORIGIN OF THE SOUL IN THE INDIVIDUAL.":

"1. HISTORICAL VIEWS RESPECTING THE ORIGIN OF THE SOUL. Greek philosophy devoted considerable attention to the problem of the human soul and did not fail to make its influence felt in Christian theology. The nature, the origin, and the continued existence of the soul, were all subjects of discussion. Plato believed in the pre-existence and transmigration of the soul. In the early Church the doctrine of the pre-existence of the soul was practically limited to the Alexandrian school. Origen was the chief representative of this view and combined it with the notion of a pre-temporal fall."

So, as I have previously stated, Two Seedism's idea of the preexistence of souls was not new, being borrowed from other sources. In the first chapter in this series I stated that Two Seedism borrowed its basic tenets from other sources, and this is another example. 

Berkhof writes further:

"2. PRE-EXISTENTIANISM. Some speculative theologians, among whom Origen, Scotus Erigena, and Julius Mueller are the most important, advocated the theory that the souls of men existed in a previous state, and that certain occurrences in that former state account for the condition in which those souls are now found. Origen looks upon man's present material existence, with all its inequalities and irregularities, physical and moral, as a punishment for sins committed in a previous existence. Scotus Erigena also holds that sin made its entrance into the world of humanity in the pre-temporal state, and that therefore man begins his career on earth as a sinner. And Julius Mueller has recourse to the theory, in order to reconcile the doctrines of the universality of sin and of individual guilt. According to him each person must have sinned willingly in that previous existence. This theory is open to several objections. (a) It is absolutely devoid of both Scriptural and philosophical grounds, and is, at least in some of its forms, based on the dualism of matter and spirit as taught in heathen philosophy, making it a punishment for the soul to be connected with the body. (b) It really makes the body something accidental. The soul was without the body at first, and received this later on. Man was complete without the body. This virtually wipes out the distinction between man and the angels. (c) It destroys the unity of the human race, for it assumes that all individual souls existed long before they entered the present life. They do not constitute a race. (d) It finds no support in the consciousness of man. Man has absolutely no consciousness of such a previous existence; nor does he feel that the body is a prison or a place of punishment for the soul. In fact, he dreads the separation of body and soul as something that is unnatural."This doctrine was not allowed to be taught during the dark ages. There were a few men who contended for it; one leader by the name of Donatist who lived 250 years after Christ was here on earth in visible form; and later Peter Waldo, the founder of the Waldenses, of medieval times. The theory of the Two-Seed as a principle of doctrine has existed since apostolic times and farther back."

Berkhof says that one of the objections to the belief in the preexistence of souls is that the physical body becomes an unnecessary burden. In Gnosticism the idea of living forever in a physical body is repudiated, salvation being a freedom from the physical realm. This led many Two Seeder Baptists to deny the resurrection of the dead. Notice that Berkhof says that "the theory of the Two-Seed as a principle of doctrine has existed since apostolic times and farther back." So, again, the Two Seedism of the "Primitive" or "Old School" Baptists was not new, a confirmation of Solomon's affirmation that "there is nothing new under the sun." (Eccl. 1: 9)

Creation of Souls in Adam

"The idea that all souls were created within Adam is a concept primarily found in some interpretations of Jewish and Islamic thought, particularly within the Kabbalah and Islamic traditions related to Adam and his descendants." (AI)

Jewish Kabbalah: Some Kabbalistic texts suggest that Adam contained all future souls within him.

Islamic scriptures (Quran) suggest that all souls were created at the same time as God created Adam.

If one accepts the idea that all souls were created in Adam, it becomes easy to embrace the idea that all the souls of the elect were begotten when the Son of God, or "God-Man," or "second Adam," was begotten some time before the world began.

In "Christianity in the First and Second Century: Growth, Persecution and Transformation" (See here) we have these scholarly words:

"The term Gnosticism refers to a broad spectrum of groups founded on a dualist view of existence. They viewed our physical bodies as prisons for our celestial souls which are the essence of our being. Our souls are a fragment of the eternal divine light but are trapped in the darkness of our dirty, corrupt, evil physical bodies. Because humans live in darkness, we forget our divine origins and live in ignorance."

As we stated in the first chapters in this series, Two Seedism says that righteous souls preexisted in the "God-Man" and all unrighteous souls originated from "particles" coming from Satan and being then planted in mother Eve. That is, the "seed" that gave birth to the non-elect was the Devil's seed, though the non-elect don't have souls as do the elect. Some Two Seeders said that the Devil planted his seed in Eve "in spirit" while other Two Seeders said it was by the Devil having sex with Eve, and so we have two groups of Two Seeders, one called "Two Seed in the Spirit" and one called "Two Seed in the Flesh." 

The Two Seed View

I have given in my blogs many citations from the first Two Seeders that affirmed their belief in the preexistence of the souls or spirits of the elect. In my blog book titled "The Hardshell Baptist Cult" (See here) I have three chapters on "Eternal Vital Union" which gives those citations. I have placed those two chapters into my blog that contains all my writings on the Two Seed Primitive Baptists (See here and here) In this series I will give a couple citations where the preexistence of the souls of the elect are taught and that from the leading apologist for Two Seedism, Elder Gilbert Beebe. In chapter VI of this series I cited from two of his editorials, one that discusses James 1:18 and another that discusses Hebrews 2:14, both which showed the Two Seed view on the preexistence of the souls of the saved.

Gilbert Beebe and Samuel Trott, the two leading writers for the "Signs of the Times," promoted their own version of Daniel Parker's "Two Seedism." Who would have ever interpreted James 1: 18 or Hebrews 2: 14 in the absurd fashion of these Two Seeders? As the man Christ Jesus (or Hussey's, Watts', et.al, "God-Man") was begotten before the world began, so too were the souls of the elect begotten in Christ. This is an affirmation of the preexistence of the souls of the man Christ Jesus and of the elect among men.

In "The Salvation Of Infants" from an Editorial by Elder Gilbert Beebe in the "Signs of the Times" for December 1st, 1856, Beebe wrote:

"But generation and regeneration imply a prior existence in a progenitor. Levi was in the loins of his great grandfather, Abraham, when Melchisedec met him and blessed him. And all the saints were in Christ Jesus, their spiritual immortal progenitor, when the eternal Father blessed him, and all his saints in him, with all spiritual blessings, according as he had chosen them in him before the foundation of the world." (See here)

On "ROMANS 5:14" Beebe wrote the following on March 15, 1864 in the "Signs of the Times":

"All who have, or hereafter shall descend from the earthly Adam were created in and identified with him...Being in him from his creation, we sinned in him before any of us were brought into personal manifestation." 

This is where I see a contradiction in what Beebe and the other advocates for Two Seedism affirm about the creation of human souls. Sometimes they affirmed that the souls of the elect or all believers were begotten and had an existence when Christ was begotten sometime in eternity past. At other times, they will affirm that the souls of the elect were "created in" Adam. The two citations above demonstrate  this fact.

Elder W.T. Pence as a young minister wrote to Elder Gilbert Beebe a letter that was published in the "Signs of the Times" for June 15th, 1864 and now in Volume 6 and pages 33 through 43. Elder Pence was one of the men who contended for the historic Baptist view that God uses the preaching of the Gospel or word of God in the regeneration of sinners when that issue came to a head in the late nineteenth century. The letter to Beebe was long, but the written response of Beebe was several times longer. You can read it online (here) under the title "Eternal Union." 

Wrote Pence (all emphasis mine):

"The first to which I shall refer I find in Volume Thirty-two, No. 5, p. 37. In your reply to a request on the fifth chapter of Romans, you say that the whole human family were a unit in the first Adam, that they all acted in him, sinned in him, and were made sinners by his transgression. Again on page 46, No. 6, you say, “Being in him from his creation, we sinned in him before any of us were brought into personal manifestation; hence, when death passed upon him it passed on all that he was, as the embodiment of his entire race.” Now, if I apprehend the meaning of your words, the conclusion is this: that all of Adam’s posterity were created in and simultaneous with him, were all embodied in and had an actual existence with him, and in consequence of what they did in him in the first transgression, death is passed upon all. Thus far we agree, or rather thus far light has been given." (pg. 34)

If Beebe believes that all of Adam's posterity were created in him, then how can Beebe say that all the souls or persons of the elect were created long before that, in eternity past when Christ was begotten?

Wrote Pence:

"But in the 14th verse it is said, “Adam is a figure of him that was to come, which is Christ,” of which you say, page 37, No. 5, “The second Adam, the spiritual progenitive Head of the spiritual family, or posterity or seed, embodied them all in himself before the world began, and as sin, condemnation and death came by the one earthly Adam, so justification unto life and immortality came by the second, or anti-typical Adam, to all his seed.” Again you say on page 46, No. 6, “As it was totally impossible for any who were in the loins of the earthly Adam to escape the guilt and consequences of his disobedience, so it is also and equally impossible that any who were created in Christ Jesus, chosen and embodied in him before the foundation of the world should fail to participate in his righteousness, and the free gift by it unto justification of life.” Now, my understanding of your views is this: That judgment unto condemnation and death is passed upon all the seed of the first Adam, in effect, of their participating in his transgression. (Like as it is said by Paul of Levi, who paid tithes in Abraham; for he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him. Hebrews 7:9.) Likewise after the same similitude, righteousness is imputed to all those who were created and embodied in the second Adam, by virtue of their being participants in the one great transaction that brought justification unto life, for, in effect of what they did in him. (f) This would seem to conflict with what I regard as a Christian experience."

Notice again the contradiction. Created in Adam and created in the second Adam a long time prior.

Wrote Pence:

"...I cannot arrive at any other conclusion, if justification be based on the supposition of being created and embodied in Christ before the world began."

In "Reply to Brother W. T. Pence" Beebe wrote:

"But if it be necessary to review the whole of his communication, and compare it with our own views, as expressed in all that we have written and published for the past thirty-two years on the subject of the eternal vital union of Christ and his church, and the union and identity of the earthly Adam and his posterity in the flesh, or even what we wrote on Romans 5, and published in No. 5 of the current volume, then indeed the field before us is very large." (pg. 36)

Wrote Beebe:

"Query First. – “Was Christ brought into being as a creature simultaneous with his elect?”

"Here our brother takes us beyond our depth; for we know nothing of Christ being brought into being as a creature at all. It is true, as an apostle has said, we have known Christ after the flesh; but henceforth know we him no more. If by creatureship, brother Pence means manifestation in his mediatorial character, or when the Word was made flesh, or was made under the law, made of a woman, to redeem them that were under the law, we hold that his elect were in him as the Christ of God, long anterior to his incarnation; as long anterior as his existence was to that of Abraham. See John 8:58."

Here we see a couple other contradictions in the ideology of Beebe. He wants to say that Christ was not a creature, and yet wants to say that he was begotten in his human or mediatorial nature. However, it is well known that a person is created when he is conceived in the womb. Notice also the word "manifestation." This is a word that is used quite frequently by Two Seeders. So, when Christ was begotten or became flesh (incarnation) he did not then begin to exist, but his birth of Mary was but a manifestation of his previous human existence. Likewise, in regard to being reborn of the Spirit, Beebe would say that it was but a time when the preexistent spirit of the elect entered into them in time and manifested itself. Even today we see how Hardshells often used this same word in similar ways and once again manifests (pun intended) their two seed ancestry.

Wrote Beebe:

"We can conceive of no period when Christ did not exist as the mediatorial Head of his church; nor can we conceive of the existence of the Head without the body of Christ. We now speak of his spiritual or mystical body. If it be admitted that they are one with Christ, even as is Christ one with God the Father, we can no more deny the eternal vital union of Christ and his members than we can deny the eternal identity of the Father and the Son in the Godhead."

Notice the heresy stated in these words. He affirms 1) that the human nature of Christ had no beginning and 2) that the persons of the elect also had no beginning. That makes the humanity of Christ to be divinity, much like Mormon theology, and it makes the persons of the elect to be uncreated, and therefore divine beings. The doctrine of the preexistence of souls is not a bible teaching but is an idea borrowed from other religions, such as Gnosticism, as I have stated in previous chapters. What about Adam? When was he created? There is every reason to believe that he was a believer in the Lord, and if so, then a child of God, one of the elect. That being so, Beebe and the Two Seeders would have to say that he was not created when the Lord formed his body of the dust and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and yet the bible says that when the Lord did this that Adam "BECAME a living soul." (Gen. 2: 7)

Wrote Beebe:

"As we know of no beginning of the existence of Christ, we will take the liberty to so change the form of the enquiry as to substitute the word manifestation for that of existence, and then we hesitate not to answer the question affirmatively. As the second Adam, his church – his bride – was always in him, as Eve was originally in the earthly Adam, or as the human race was all in Adam from his creation. But as we are extending our article too far for our limited space, we will now pass to consider the other question of brother Pence, viz.: “Was the spiritual family of God ever corrupted in sin?”"

When Beebe says "no beginning of the existence of Christ" he means the man Christ, the humanity of Christ. Certainly there was no beginning to the divinity of Christ, but there was indeed a beginning to the humanity of Christ at the time when he was conceived in the womb of the virgin Mary. This is what we saw was the teaching of many Hyper Calvinists of the past, along with several others, such as Joseph Hussey, Karl Barth, Isaac Watts, etc. Notice again how Two Seeders substitute the word "manifestation" for the word "existence." Pence asks a most important question for those who believe that the elect existed in Christ from eternity; "was the spiritual family of God ever corrupted in sin?" 

Wrote Beebe in reply:

"Our relationship as children of God was not predicated upon our becoming “partakers of flesh and blood;” for the relationship was complete before Adam’s dust was fashioned into a man. But for his own glory God ordained that his children should become in time partakers of flesh and blood, share in the apostasy of that flesh and blood, and in that condemnation consequent thereon, and from that condemnation and wrath be redeemed, and these bodies washed, cleansed, purified and adopted in due time into the fellowship and liberty of the children of God. Our life of God in Christ required no adoption; for it is born of God." 

It is this belief of the preexistence of God's children that led to it being called "eternal children doctrine" by those who opposed Two  Seedism. This is not sound orthodox doctrine but a perversion of the scriptures. It makes "the children of God" to be a bunch of little gods who eternally existed in God.

Wrote Beebe:

"As the children of God they have a glorious birthright; but as the children of Adam, we were predestinated to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will. That this adoption relates to the resurrection and immortality of our now mortal bodies is clear from the arguments of Paul in Romans 8:11-25."

Beebe thinks that the children of God become the children of Adam, and that being children of Adam is only true in regard to the physical existence or body that the incorporeal children come to reside in. Beebe and some other Two Seeders not only rejected the idea of an uncreated Devil, but also opposed other Two Seeders who began to deny the resurrection of the bodies of saints. Beebe says that "adoption" pertains only to the physical body and not the uncreated soul or spirit of the elect. Why would God adopt those who were his children by being eternally begotten?

I see another contradiction in the ideology of Two Seedism besides the few I have already mentioned. When talking about the Trinity Beebe, Trott, and others want to deny that the Son of God was God by having been begotten from eternity, and yet they have no problem believing that the man Christ was eternally begotten along with his children.