Last night my fellow paster (Chuck Griffin) and I went to the evening session of the Bear Creek Association. Last year we also went, but on a Saturday, and stayed for two sessions, and we had a few others from our church to go with us. Our church, Crossroads Baptist, the past few years, has been in the habit of visiting other churches. Our pastor and a few others who wanted to go, would visit one of the denominational churches, and then meet afterwards to talk about doctrine and church practice, and about the differences between our church beliefs and practices and those of the churches visited. Last year, it was the first time some of them had ever been to a Hardshell church service.
Chuck has a relative who is a local Hardshell preacher, a young man of 38, and who had been recently ordained. Chuck attended his ordination. He is now pastoring 2-3 churches and preaching about eight times per month. This young preacher was introduced to me and he said he remembers me from the years I was a local Hardshell preacher! That was in the late seventies, primarily. He was just a child then and yet he remembered me. I thought that was very interesting. But, I do remember how I had made an impression on many young children back then. One young man, about six, was killed in front of his house when a truck ran over him. It was tragic. His mom and dad were Hardshells. They asked me to preach his funeral since I had made such an impression upon him! Precious memories! To think that God had used me to reach that young boy!
I hope I can meet with the young Hardshell preacher. We only chatted a little while, seeing the people were beginning to gather for meeting. I hope Chuck can set up a meeting for us to discuss the Old Baptist faith.
One of the two preachers who preached the evening service was Elder David Montgomery of Texas. David has a large web page with old articles of "Primitive Baptists." I have cited from articles posted on his web page. He preached first and spoke against "perseverance," which many of his brethren do, claiming that a belief in perseverance was not scriptural, and that it taught preservation rather than perseverance. I took issue, in my mind, of course, to the things which he said. Since I have just finished my series of chapters on "Hardshell Proof Texts," I plan to begin posting a series of chapters on "Hardshells and Perseverance" over the next few weeks. In this series I will address the kind of arguments offered by Montgomery on the subject.
After the services ended, I got to speak with my ex father-in-law, Elder Newell Helms, who has been a leading preacher in the Bear Creek Association for 45-50 years. I showed him the book "Thoughts on Divine Providence," by Elder Hosea Preslar, and asked him if he had ever seen it. He had not. I then told him about Elder Preslar, how he was born in 1814 in Anson County, NC., the county adjoining our county, and how he was a member and later pastor of Lawyer's Spring Primitive Baptist Church, one of the oldest in the Bear Creek. I told him that Preslar was present during the division over missions, Sunday Schools, seminaries, etc. That he had taken the "Old School" side. However, he believed in gospel means, that sinners are begotten by the preaching of the gospel! I had several pages marked where Preslar stated many things contrary to hardshellism! I told Newell - "that is the original old Baptist position! Who is really primitive then?" Newell said he would like to read the book. So, I plan to write him this week and include copies of pertinent pages in the book and how he should contact Cincinnati PB church to see if they still sell it.
This has caused me to want to do some more research on the Bear Creek Association's history and possibly write a pamphlet for today's local Hardshells, showing them that the original position of their churches taught gospel means, perseverance, etc.
After talking with Newell a few minutes, he had to leave with his aged wife, and I determined to go and meet Elder Montgomery. I found him still in the sanctuary talking with some ladies. Chuck and I went up to where he was. Chuck sat down and I stood near him, waiting for him to finish his discussions with the sisters.
Finally, he finished, and I reached out to shake his hand, and introduced myself. He recognized my name! I told him I had visited his web page many times and cited from the authors he has available on his page. He said he had visited my web pages in the past. I gave him info on the three I have which deal with Hardshellism.
I mentioned to him how he has citations from Elder John Clark, editor of Zion's Advocate, from the early 1850's till about 1889, and who was a leader in the "Old School" movement. I told him that Clark believed in gospel means in the work of being regenerated or born again. He did not deny it.
I brought up the old Philadelphia/London confession and about the Hardshells difficulty with it, how all their old churches endorsed it, and yet how it taught gospel means. I brought up the Fulton Convention (1900) of fifty-one elders who met to affirm their adherence to the London Confession, and yet put footnotes to the confession which altered the meaning of the sections dealing with gospel means. Many Hardshells confess, however, that the confession teaches means, and that those elders in Fulton were twisting the clear meaning of the confession. Those who are this honest, are also the very ones who will not recognize the London Confession nor consider it a criterion for judging who is "primitive" and who is not. David was uncomfortable here. But, I never got his view on the matter, as we were all in a hurry. He either agrees with the Fulton Convention, or he does not. He either agrees with them that the confession is a rule for determining who is an old or original Baptist, or he does not. He either agrees with them in their footnotes, or he does not. Either way, however, he has difficulties to deal with.
I mentioned how the first Hardshells, like Beebe and Trott, taught the three stage model of the new birth, how conversion, by the gospel and faith, was what it meant to be "born again." He acknowledged that was their view and even suggested some of his Texas brethren believed the same or something similar. I would like to have gone further with this conversation, but time ran out.
In my parting words to David, I told him how I had challenged numerous Hardshells to give articles of faith or writings of Baptist leaders, prior to the rise of the Hardshells, prior to 1830, or prior to the 19th century, where Hardshell views on regeneration were in existence. I asked him if he could do it. He indicated to me that he could, if I interpreted his response correctly. I told him to send me the info if he had it. So, we will see. I also said - "let us communicate in the future." So, again, we will see.
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