I have some drafts on the subject of free will vs. determinism which I hope to finish one day before I die. Not that there is anything new in them from what I have already written through the years. But, writing them after so many years of study and debate on the subject, I think I could now do a better job of discussing the issues more softly and gently.
In this video there is a question and answer session with Calvinist Dr. John Piper and another gentlemen who does not seem to embrace Calvinism. I cannot respond to everything so let me just make this as short as possible.
"God determines the end and the means" said Piper. What is wrong with that? The brother playing devil's advocate with Piper and the narrator seemed to suggest that non Calvinists don't agree with that. Well, I do and I can defend that proposition, not by logic alone, but by scripture.
In this short discussion here are some of the questions and statements made by the non Calvinist.
1) "Why did you believe and not another?"
2) "What determines your belief?"
3) "What determines your free will choice?"
4) "Obviously, if something determines your free will choice then it ceases to be a free will choice."
5) "he freely chose not to believe the gospel"
According to the non Calvinist, God is not the reason why one person differs from another (which is against what Paul taught in I Cor. 4: 7). He believes that he is different because of free will.
The narrator assumes that a free choice cannot have any causes. How is that logical or biblical? An effect without a cause! That is against both the bible and science; and common sense too.
One comment under the video is one that we hear often from those who despise determinism. The commenter said:
"...there is no disobedience in Calvinism, because a person who does not evangelize is doing so because they were pre-determined to not evangelize. If I choose not to witness then I have not done wrong."
Just substitute the word "suffered" or "permitted" or "allowed" for the word "predestined" or "caused" or "predetermined" and you will see that really the non Calvinist is in agreement with Calvinists (they just will not admit it, or having trouble seeing it, etc.). Nothing comes to pass unless God allows it to come to pass. Some things he permits to happen and other things he keeps from happening (like keeping Abimelech from sinning). Can we agree on that? We should. Well, that being so, all we have to do is to ask whether the permissive will of God is still the will of God?
Just substitute the word "independent" for "free" also when those who believe in indeterminism speak of free will. Ask them if they mean an independent will, a will that depends on nothing. No one has free will because no one has a completely independent will. Only God has a free and independent will.
The words "compel" and "constrained" are used in scripture, which in itself is against indeterminism and free will or libertarianism.
I will delve more deeply in this subject when I have finished other drafts that are ahead in the list. As anyone can see, I do not see predestination and determinism as a hobby horse. On the other hand, if Arminians attack my belief in it and call my view heresy, then expect me to kick back or make a defense.
3 comments:
Addendum
The author of the video has this syllogism under the video:
Premise 1: God determines all things that come to pass.
Premise 2: My desires not to evangelize comes to pass.
Conclusion: Calvinism teaches God determines my desires not to evangelize.
Now let us use the word "knowingly permits" for the word "determines"
Premise 1: God "knowingly permits" all things that come to pass.
Premise 2: My desires not to evangelize comes to pass.
Conclusion: Calvinism teaches God "knowingly permits" my desires not to evangelize.
Reverend Garrett
As a non Calvinist, non Arminian, let me say that I do believe in "determinism" altho I do not use the word for fear of conjuring up an image that I do not mean. For example, some may preach "It was God's will for the child to fall from the tree and die." Well I can affirm that statement just as I affirm "all who believe and are baptized will be saved." Yet the statement does not convey that I reject the belief that one goes to hell because he was not baptized. The same is true of "determinism." God created the law of gravity, and that anything that falls is because He willed it so thru His law. Yet I would also affirm that God did not "desire" the death of the child. Some would say that is heretical, for if God "desires" something, it MUST come to pass. Yet Jesus "desired" that "this cup pass from me", but the Father "determined" that it would not. The same God having both a "desire" and a "determination". I am perfectly happy with "knowingly permits" or "perfect will and permissive will", for both can be said to be the "will of God." The problem is that there are many stripes and types of Calvinists, all using the same terminology, yet not all meaning the same thing. Many Calvinists (hypers especially) take the doctrine of "determinism" and become fully antimonian. You do well to substitute another word in place of "determine" so that others may see the point. Some who use the term "absolute predestination of all things" may mean one thing, while others who use it mean another. Both the action and inaction of God is at play. Just as you would say "Predestination keeps no one out who wants salvation" I could say "No one who desires to be included in predestination is left out." I look forward to your articles on the subject. Just dont be pokin' and provokin' (smile) Thats my two cents worth, but I have ninety eight more cents before my dollar is up. Blessings dear friend!
Dear reverend brother Mann:
I pretty much agree with what you have said. Good thoughts. Thanks.
Thanks for your prayers and contributions towards this blog. We are both Old Baptists, though of different traditions soteriologically.
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