By Grace Through Faith (2)

I had not intended to write a follow up to the previous article I published Sunday. However, I did a Google search using this question -- "is the salvation of Ephesians 2:8 quickening?" One of the Web pages given was from a "Primitive" (Hardshell) Baptist and the article was titled "Saved Through Faith" posted by Joshua Winslett on September 10, 2020 for the Web page "March To Zion" (here). I have written against some of the writings of Elder Ben Winslett who writes for this Web site (this link HERE will take you to those articles). I assume that Joshua Winslett is a relative of Ben. When I began to read Joshua's article I was surprised that he rightly affirmed that the "salvation" of Ephesians 2:8 was the quickening or regeneration described in verses 1-7 and in verses 9-10. So I, with some increased interest, kept reading.

What I discovered was that, in order to deny that belief in Christ and the Gospel was essential for salvation, Joshua, rather than denying that the salvation was regeneration or eternal salvation, denied that the "faith" of the text referred to a cognitive belief resulting from knowledge, making the faith to be some kind of a seed deposit that has no knowledge of Christ. I also saw where Joshua would say something about the text and then say something just the opposite. His article, as we will see, had several glaring contradictions in it. So, let us begin our critical look at what he wrote. 

Joshua wrote (emphasis mine): 

"There are many Bible passages that can bring both comfort and debate among Christians. Among these verses is Ephesians 2:8. Is this verse describing regeneration? Is this verse speaking of Christ’s legal work on the cross? Is this verse saying that a person must do something to be saved? There is no small assortment of views concerning this text. The following essay will consider the verse in context, as well as the various other components of the verse."

So, is the verse describing regeneration? Clearly, yes, as I showed in the previous article. Does the verse say that a person must do something to be saved or quickened? Obviously yes, for faith, or believing something, is something someone does. In the teachings of Jesus and the apostles, "coming" to Jesus with the heart and mind, is what is involved in believing or having faith in Christ. (See John 5: 40; 6: 35, 65; Heb. 11: 6; I Peter 2: 4-7) Now, let us see if Joshua will affirm or deny that the salvation of the text is regeneration and whether faith is a necessary condition and something a person must do to be saved.

Joshua wrote further:

"Ephesians 2:8 describes regeneration. Ephesians 2:1 starts with “And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.” The context seems to build up to regeneration."

Absolutely true! I am glad that this Hardshell brother sees that this is what the context demands us to understand. But, I tell you, trying to get his fellow Hardshells to take this view is not going to be easy! Most of them are going to say that the salvation of the text is a mere "time salvation" corresponding to evangelical conversion, which they deny is a necessity for being regenerated or saved in the end with an eternal salvation. Joshua says that regeneration is "through faith." Great! But, don't hold your breath! As we will see, he will so dramatically change the meaning of "faith" so as to uphold Hardshell Hyper Calvinism, and this unfounded definition of "faith" will lead him to deny that the salvation of the text shows that people must do something to be saved or quickened. 

First, let me give some more statements that he made affirming that the context shows that quickening (or regeneration) is the salvation of the text. Joshua wrote further:

"Being that these chapter breaks are not original to Paul, the end of chapter 1 leads perfectly into the discussion of regeneration in chapter 2. There is no disconnection."

"Furthermore, both verse 8 and 10 starts with the word ‘for’. The word ‘for’ denotes the idea of an explanatory reason...How are we saved (regenerated)? By God’s grace through faith." 

"Also, the context of Ephesians 2:1-7 shows consistent pattern and flow that points toward the context as being regeneration."

"The overwhelming context of verse 8 seems to be directed towards regeneration."

"In chapter 2, Paul is explaining why God had called the Ephesians from death to life. Regeneration is a necessary part of the purpose of salvation."

"If the above exegesis is correct then the salvation mentioned in verse 8 is being vitally saved at regeneration. Though Christ accomplished the legal work of redemption on the cross, the elect sinner must also have this redemptive work applied to the soul. Regeneration makes the soul fit for heaven. This deliverance then is being saved from a death in sins unto a life in Christ. The person is also saved from the full bondage of sin in their life as their soul has now been radically changed."

So, this is great. He agrees that the salvation of Ephesians 2: 8 is the quickening and is through faith. That is different from how others, who affirm that regeneration precedes faith, or other Hardshells, interpret the text. Many Hardshells say the salvation of the text is a "time salvation" (conversion) that is not necessary for eternal salvation. Reformed Baptists who teach the regeneration before faith view will also say that the salvation is what occurs immediately when a person is regenerated and given faith.

Reformed Baptists (like James White) and Presbyterians (like R.C. Sproul) will say that the text is talking about conversion and see it as saying that regeneration instantly produces faith which then instantly produces the salvation of conversion and justification. This interpretation, however, denies that the salvation of the text includes regeneration, for if regeneration precedes faith, then the salvation of the text cannot be regeneration because it is declared to be "though faith," and that shows that faith preceded the salvation.

Union With Christ

Joshua said:

"Notice that these verses flow from active depravity to the factor of change brought about by the new birth. This living spiritual union is described by Paul with three different prepositions; with, in, and through. We have been made alive with Christ."

I agree that union with Christ is described by two of the prepositions he names. Paul is affirming that spiritual life is obtained by union with Christ by faith. It is when a sinner goes from being outside of Christ to being "in Christ" that he is made alive spiritually. Christ is "the Life." (John 14: 6) To have spiritual life, one must be joined to him as that Life. So the apostle John said: "he who has the Son has life." (I John 5: 12) How is Christ received into the heart? It is by faith. 

"And this is the will of Him that sent Me, that every one which seeth the Son, and is believing on him (eis-into him), may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:40)

"Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye may be believing on him (eis-into him) whom He hath sent." (John 6:29)

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that is believing on (eis, into) Me is having everlasting life. I am that bread of life." (John 6:47-48)

These verses show that it is by believing in Christ that one enters into Christ or becomes "in Christ." Also, notice that the verbal participle is used (believing ones) rather than the noun (faith). 

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name." (John 1: 12 nkjv)

"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him." (Col. 2: 6 kjv)

These verses speak of receiving Christ, which is how Christ comes to be with or in the one who receives him. We also notice that this "receiving" is done in the "believing." Christ is not possessed nor is he abiding in a person until that person has received Christ. Christ enters believers at the same time believers enter into Christ. 

Paul spoke of believers dwelling "in his heart" (I Cor. 7: 3; Phil. 1: 7), which is what is characteristic of people who love each other. Christ is in believers because believers love Christ and "faith works by love" (Gal. 5" 6). So Jesus said: "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." (John 14: 23 kjv) Likewise, believers are in the heart of  Christ because he loves them, especially since they have become "children of God by faith in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3: 26). Believers are married to Christ (Eph. 5: 22-33) by love and this is how they become one with Christ. So Paul says:

"30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church."

So, people are "joined" to Christ by marrying him, or by entering into his covenant, by "cleaving" to him in love and marriage. That is when they become "one" with Christ. Paul also wrote of this union through love and marriage in these words:

"Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another--to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God." (Rom. 7: 4 nkjv)

And to the Corinthians he also wrote: "Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.” And, "he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with him." (I Cor. 6: 16 nkjv)

Christ is received and enters the heart by eating him as the bread of life by faith. So Jesus said:

"50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”...53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me." (John 6: 50-51, 53-57 nkjv)

In order for Christ to enter a person, a person must take him into himself, typified by eating him as a loaf of bread, eating his flesh and blood, the sacrificial lamb, by receiving that sacrifice by believing in his sacrificial death and trusting in it.

So, in Ephesians chapter two, being "with Christ" or "in Christ" denotes a union that brings every spiritual blessing, including spiritual life and communion with God; And, this union or being in Christ, or Christ being in you, is effected by believing and trusting in Christ, by receiving him. However, Joshua is wrong to say that the preposition "through" as in "through faith" or "through Christ" has the same meaning as "with" or "in." Notice what Paul says in verses 12-13:

"...that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ."

What "time" is Paul alluding to? Is he not alluding to the time when they heard the gospel or word of salvation and were made believers, repented, and were converted? In verse two Paul indicates that their quickening occurred in conjunction with their repentance. Prior to this "time" they "walked according to the course of this world, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind," but at the time of their quickening they turned and changed their conduct. 

So too do the Scriptures speak of receiving the Spirit for salvation and this receiving is done by faith, a faith that is the result of "hearing" the gospel. Wrote Paul:

"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" (Gal. 3: 2 kjv)

Receiving the Spirit is how sinners are saved and the Spirit is received when Christ is received. How are Christ and the Spirit received? "By the hearing of faith," which means the same thing as "faith comes by hearing the word of God." (Rom. 10: 17) 

Keep in mind also that believing and receiving are actions done by sinners. These verbs are in the active voice. It is true that in some aspects of salvation a person is passive, God doing the work, but to insist that no part of the salvation process involves any active doing of people is false. See my chapters titled "Passive or Active?" in my long series "The Hardshell Baptist Cult." (here and here)

Dr. John Piper, though he believes that a sinner is first regenerated before he receives Jesus by faith, nevertheless sometimes contradicted that belief, affirming that sinners are quickened by faith. In this post (here) I cited these words of Piper:

"The way this happens (as we have seen in the first six messages in this series) is that the Spirit of God supernaturally gives us new spiritual life by connecting us with Jesus Christ through faith. The new spiritual life that we receive in the new birth is not separate from union with Jesus, and it is not separate from faith. When God in the riches of his mercy and the greatness of his love and the sovereignty of his grace chooses to regenerate us, he gives us new life by uniting us to Christ." ("Born Again Through the Living and Abiding Word"; here)

Notice that "spiritual life" comes by the Spirit of God "connecting us with Jesus Christ through faith." In that statement he puts faith before receiving spiritual life or regeneration.

Joshua said:

"Faith itself is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22). Being a fruit, it is an effect and evidence of the Spirit within a person and not the cause. A person must first have the Spirit of God in them before they can have faith."

When Joshua says that a person must have the Spirit of God in them before they can have faith, he not only contradicts himself, as we will see, but the apostle Paul who said in the above text that the Galatians received the Spirit by the hearing of faith. Yes, faith is a gift of God, a product of the Spirit, but this does not necessitate that faith follows salvation. Ephesians 2: 8 says faith preceded salvation, and Joshua even agrees with that, but he here says faith comes after salvation. 

So, it is good that Joshua sees that the salvation of verse eight is the quickening, spiritual resurrection or regeneration, and being created in Christ Jesus. So, is he then no longer a Hardshell denying that one must believe in Christ by hearing the gospel in order to be regenerated, born again, or eternally saved? Sadly, no, for the reasons he will next explain.

Joshua said:

"Some may be under the assumption that man can exercise faith in order to be born again. One must always remember that depravity is literally a death and regeneration is literally a resurrection. It would be utterly ridiculous to expect the dead to do anything of themselves to get life."

Of course saving faith is not what a person authors or produces. There is no physical or natural inability to believe, though there is a moral or spiritual inability. So, a man "can" believe in the former sense, but not in the latter. Admitting that dead sinners lack the spiritual ability to believe savingly does not necessitate that we believe that faith can therefore be no means unto salvation. Has Joshua forgotten Ephesians 1: 19 that he himself cited in his article? It says that sinners believe by the working of God's mighty power. So, though the power to believe is not in the dead sinner, it is in God. 

It indeed "would be utterly ridiculous to expect the dead to do anything of themselves to get life." But, that does not equate to saying that the spiritually dead don't do things by the power of God to get life. "The dead" must first "hear" the voice of the Son of God in order to live. (John 5: 25) Ezekiel prophesied to the dry dead bones as a means in resurrecting them. (Ezekiel chapter 37) Said God: "Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live." (Isa. 55: 3) In John 5: 40 Christ said to dead sinners - "you will not come unto me that you might have life." The coming is an action the dead sinner does in order to obtain spiritual life. 

Joshua wrote:

"Whereas I agree that regeneration precedes the gift of faith, we cannot be born again without also being given the gift of faith."

How in the name of reason can Joshua say that regeneration precedes faith when he has already admitted that the salvation of Ephesians 2:8 is regeneration? That text says "by grace you are saved (regenerated or quickened) through faith." So, faith precedes regeneration. Joshua is contradicting himself and it is amazing that he seems to be totally unaware of it. Further, in the above statement he says that regeneration precedes faith and then says faith is given in regeneration. Huh? How could faith precede regeneration if it comes in regeneration? 

Joshua said:

"The gift mentioned is God’s grace causativally acting in the vital work of regeneration, by which we are given the gift of faith."

Here Joshua does the same thing again. Even though he sees the text as saying "for by grace are you regenerated through faith" he nevertheless says faith is through regeneration. He is being somewhat like Dr. Piper in contradicting himself, all which shows how confused Joshua is on the text and how he is allowing his Hardshell biases to affect his interpretation of the text.

Joshua said:

"This initial gift of faith that is worked in the child of God at regeneration is the foundation by which we are able to understand the gospel..."

How can the regeneration be "through faith" if faith comes in or after regeneration? Further, it is ridiculous to say that faith is given in order to believe the gospel. Paul says "faith comes by hearing the word of God." (Rom. 10: 17) Where is his proof from scripture that faith comes apart from hearing any word of God and that there is faith that believes or knows nothing?

What is the "Faith" of the Text

As we just saw, Joshua is going to affirm that the "faith" of the text is not faith as it is defined in scripture but is defined in a new way so as to not contradict their view that says cognitive evangelical faith in Christ and the Gospel are not means in regeneration or any aspect of salvation.

In further affirmations of this view Joshua says:

"Faith: This is probably the most debated part of the text at hand. What is the faith here mentioned? Does the word faith always have reference to gospel belief?" 

The only people who make the faith of the text to be something different than faith or trust in Christ and the good news are the Hardshells and those Paedo-Baptists who teach that infants have a seed or root faith. I just wrote about this in a recent series (See here) showing the debate between Paedo-Baptist Thomas Bakewell and Particular Baptist John Spilsbury in 1646 where Bakewell tried to defend infants having faith and Spilsbury denying it. Years ago I gave a written critique of Elder Sonny Pyles's sermon wherein he denied that God uses the means of his word in effecting regeneration (See here). In it he argued that infants are not able to have faith (believe the Gospel).

Yes, the word "faith" implies cognitive knowledge. You cannot place faith or trust in a person you know nothing about. You cannot believe truth claims or propositions apart from knowledge of those truths. Why do the Hardshells disregard what Paul said on this point? Paul clearly affirms that a person cannot have faith apart from knowledge.

"How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!" (Rom. 10: 14-15 nkjv)

What does it say about a Bible teacher who, in light of the above, would say that people do have saving faith apart from hearing the word of God, who have it in a person they do not know, who have it but believe no truth?

Joshua says:

"Is faith always a verb, meaning something performed by the believer in Christ? I would contend that there is both a gospel or evangelical faith which not all of God’s children will experience, and an intrinsic faith given to every child of God at the new birth."

Joshua says he "would contend that there is a gospel or evangelical faith" and also contend for an "intrinsic faith" that does not believe the Gospel or word of God, a kind that is without knowledge or cognition! Unbelievable! Where in the context of Ephesians 2:8 is faith used or defined to mean that people have faith in Christ without knowing Christ or any truth? In the first chapter of Ephesians Paul speaks of the Ephesians and himself ("we") "who first trusted in Christ" and says that they trusted Christ "after you heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation." (1: 12-13) In verse fifteen Paul says he had heard of their "faith in the Lord Jesus." This is not a non-cognitive faith that knows nothing. 

Then, in verse nineteen, a verse Joshua has already cited, Paul says that the omnipotence of God is what made believers of the Ephesians. That is not some "intrinsic" or "seed" or "root" or "dormant hidden latent" faith, for there is no such thing. There is not a single text in scripture that uses the word faith (noun) or believe (verb) to denote a non-cognitive faith. Paul says that he was made a believer or came to faith by the same working of God's almighty power. Did Paul become a cognitive believer in Jesus when this power converted him on the Damascus Road? Did he come away with a faith that did not know Jesus?

Joshua says:

"What then is this gift of faith? The word faith in Ephesians 2:8 is not a verb, it is a noun. From that we can gather that this is not an action performed by man, but instead, it is something possessed by the individual."

So, faith, the noun, does not know or believe anything? Why then did Paul speak of being saved by a "belief (noun for faith; pistei) of the truth." (II Thess. 2: 13) "Faith of the truth"! Paul uses the noun when he says "so then faith comes by hearing the word of God." (Rom. 10: 17) Yes, faith is something possessed, like love, but how does that prove that faith or love in or for a person or creed is non-cognitive? Further, why does Joshua say such things and gives absolutely no proof for what he says? Where is the Greek scholar who defines "pistis" as do the Hardshells? Where is the verse in the Bible that says people who know nothing of Jesus or the Gospel nevertheless have faith in Jesus? Or that infants have faith and that apart from hearing the word of God or knowing anything? Can I possess love (noun) for my wife without loving (verb) or knowing her? 

Joshua says:

"Faith proceeds from God, as is caused by his operation, or work of regeneration on the soul."

This is true. But, is it also true of evangelical faith, cognitive faith? Can God use his word or gospel as a means in this "operation"? Is the Gospel not "the power of God unto salvation to all who believe" it? (Rom. 1: 16)

Joshua says:

"If Ephesians 2:8 taught that man must do anything of his own ability and volition to be saved, then it would contradict itself, as well as the entirety of the written word. Salvation is by grace and grace alone."

Faith is doing something. It is an action of the heart and mind, the act of placing trust. Granted, sinners do this by the power of God and the power of the Gospel, but that fact does not lead to denying that sinners must do something to be saved, such as believe and repent. Yes, salvation is by grace alone, but it is also by penitent faith alone, for the text says "by grace are you saved through faith." 

Joshua says:

"Some have thought Ephesians 2:8 to describe either Christ’s faithfulness as Savior or God’s trust in His son, or vice versa."

Yes, the "some" are the Hardshells who spend lots of time trying to figure out ways to interpret Ephesians 2: 8 so as not to contradict their foundational propositions, one of which says that a person does not have to do anything to be saved. One of those ways is to deny that the salvation mentioned in any text that is conditioned upon faith or repentance can be eternal salvation. Another way is to say that the "faith" that is a means in salvation is some ill-defined thing that is deposited in someone, like a virus, and that knows nor believes nothing cognitively. These will say "faith" means Christ, or faith means grace, or faith means faith of God, or faith of Christ, or seed faith, etc. All these are efforts to twist scripture so as to make it conform to their unscriptural propositions! In this post (here) I wrote about how the Hardshells give all sorts of synonyms for "faith" that are totally unfounded.

"Ways Hardshells Define Faith":

1. Faith means Christ

2. Faith means Grace

3. Faith means a seed deposit

4. Faith means ability to believe

5. Faith means evidence of salvation

Joshua also said along this line:

"Faith is Christ in you! Faith is also literally Christ in you, the hope of glory."

"John equates the gift of faith as being Christ in you."

So, Joshua does the very thing he seems to disallow. Though he does not believe that the faith by which sinners are saved and regenerated denotes "God's faith in his Son" or the "faith that Christ himself had" (See my series titled "God's Faith?" on this point in the archives for January through March, 2016), yet he also tries to redefine saving faith.

Joshua wrote further:

"The Greek word for faith in Ephesians 2:8 is PISTIS. One definition of the word PISTIS is “firm persuasion.”...This firm persuasion happens to every elect upon regeneration."

"Again, faith is a persuasion."

"It is evident that our God-given faith is most certainly a persuasion."

Here is another blatant contradiction by Joshua and these glaring contradictions are quite revealing about the way Hardshells read and interpret the bible. How can he not see his contradiction? He rightly says faith is a "firm persuasion." But, why then does he say it may also not mean such? What is it that "all the elect" in their "regeneration" are persuaded of? Joshua has already said that the faith that is given in regeneration is not cognitive. He says that "firm persuasion" is but "one definition" of pistis. Where is there another kind defined by Greek scholars or by the new testament writers? Paul said "faith" comes by hearing the word of God, and did not say "this kind of faith comes by hearing the word of God." Paul defined what faith means. Where did he ever define it differently? 

After giving the right definition of faith as "firm persuasion" Joshua wrote:

"It must again be pointed out that this gift of faith is not measured by or is dependent upon knowledge."

Well, tell that to the apostle Paul! I tell you, these Hardshells simply do not believe what Paul wrote in Romans chapter ten about what faith is and how it is produced! When Paul asks rhetorically "how shall they believe (or have faith in) in him of whom they have not heard," Paul is denying that one can have faith without knowledge, and in this contention he is uprooting Hardshell definitions of faith.

Joshua wrote further:

"Of faith and Ephesians 2:8, Elder Michael Gowens writes,

“This verse describes the initial gift of faith in regeneration. When the Lord Jesus Christ speaks the life-giving voice to one who is dead in trespasses and sins (Joh 5:25), He creates faith in the soul by the sheer power of His command, so that the sinner irresistibly responds to His effectual call. The sinner is “made willing in the day of [God’s] power” (Ps 110:3). Like Lazarus, he responds to the Divine imperative involuntarily – below the level of consciousness. The power that raise Jesus from the dead is the very same power that creates faith in the soul (Eph 1:19).”

Where is there a single verse in the Bible that shows that faith is without knowledge or "below the level of consciousness"? Notice that Gowens (whose writings I have critiqued thoroughly) admits that "the dead" must "hear" the voice or word of Christ before they are made alive! That is the dead doing something in order to come to life! Lazarus "responded." Would he have come to life without responding? By the way, in John 11: 44 the words "came forth" are in the active voice! 

The faith of Ephesians 1: 19 and 2: 8 is a cognitive belief in Christ and the Gospel. The context clearly shows that to be the case.

Joshua next says this about what occurs in regeneration:

• We are taught to know God and Christ. –John 17:3, Hebrews 8:10-13
• We are taught to deny ungodliness. –Titus 2:12
• We are taught to deny worldly lusts. –Titus 2:12
• We are taught to live soberly. –Titus 2:12
• We are taught to live righteously. –Titus 2:12
• We are taught to live godly. –Titus 2:12
• We are taught to groan for deliverance from sin. –Titus 2:13, Romans 8:20-23
• We are taught to love. –1 John 3:14

How is all this non-cognitive? So, all the elect come to know the one true God and Jesus Christ? This is not the general view of today's Hardshell Baptists. If all these things are "taught" and learned in regeneration, then why contend for a nonsensible or non-cognitive faith? Further, why exclude the preaching of the Gospel and word of God as a means God uses in doing this teaching? Especially seeing what Paul said about it in Romans chapter ten? 

Earlier Joshua said the "faith" of Ephesians 2: 8 was a synonym for "Christ." He seems to be jumping all over the place in his attempt to uphold his view that people must have cognitive faith in Christ and the Gospel to be regenerated or eternally saved. 

Joshua said further:

"Now, lets specifically consider the faith mentioned in Ephesians 2:8-9. This specific principle of faith is what all the elect are saved through in regeneration. This is a universal principle for all of the elect and must, by necessity, be identical to every child of God. In other word’s, being that it is a principle that will apply to all the elect, it also must be something that is applicable to infants, mentally handicapped, adults, and Old Testament saints."

I thought the faith of the text was a "firm persuasion" wherein a person was taught the enumerated things above? Why then turn around and say the above things about the faith of the text? Where is there a text in all the Bible that says people have faith without knowing or believing anything?

Joshua, in order to teach that people have faith apart from the word of God, and to contradict what the apostle Paul said, wrote:

"Old Testament Saint: There was a time when full gospel knowledge was not revealed...Full historic gospel information was not completely revealed until the time of Christ."

"There was a time before full gospel knowledge. Yet, God had a people before the gospel dispensation that served him through faith (Hebrews 11). If gospel faith was nonexistent during the law dispensation and faith is always evangelical gospel faith, how did these OT saints exercise faith?"

"There was a time before full gospel knowledge. Yet, God had a people before the gospel dispensation that served him through faith (Hebrews 11). If gospel faith was nonexistent during the law dispensation and faith is always evangelical gospel faith, how did these OT saints exercise faith?"

The old testament saints may not have had as much information about Christ and the good news concerning his salvation, but they had enough knowledge to be saved. It is not necessary for a person to have "full knowledge" of Christ and the Gospel to be saved. This is a classic "red herring." The new testament writers tell us that the saved people of the old testament had the Gospel. (Gal. 3: 8: Heb. 4: 1-2; Rom. 1: 1-2) Abel, son of Adam and Eve, had faith (Heb. 11:4) and his faith came via the word of God given in Genesis 3: 15 through what is called the "protoevangelium," which means "the first Gospel," for in the divine oracle a Savior and Redeemer is promised to come and undo what the Serpent had done, and from that time forward the Messiah was called "the desired one." (See Hag. 2: 7; Dan. 11: 37) Abel put his faith in this promised Redeemer who his parents told him about via the Oracle of God.

Notice that Joshua speaks about the old testament saints not having "full knowledge" of the Gospel and then concludes that this lack of full knowledge means that they did not have "gospel faith." Huh? Be astonished oh heavens! No one in the old testament believed the good news of a Messiah!