What I Would Like To Ask Claud Cayce

In reference to the word of Romans 10:17 Elder Claud Cayce once wrote:

"The word here is the speech of God. God speaks to the sinner who is dead in sins, and by the power of that speech the sinner is made alive in Christ, made alive from the dead..." (Cayce's Editorials, Volume 5, pages 123, 124)

But, Elder Cayce, if Romans chapter ten is about “gospel time salvation” how is the word not about…well, you know…the gospel?  And doesn’t the fact that you claim the word to be the speech of God, or the direct voice of the Son of God, prove that you’re treating Romans 10 as if it was speaking of eternal salvation, in particular regeneration?  Otherwise, why the need to give it an anti-means interpretation?

Since the cunning debater is no longer with us to respond, maybe some of his devoted followers will, and tell me whether they think the elder was correct on Romans 10:17, or that he was guilty of one of the most obvious contradictions I have ever seen.

S. Hassell on PB's "Greatest Sin"

"Beware Of Covetousness" (Luke 12:15) 
Written by Sylvester Hassell
ADVOCATE AND MESSENGER
Williamston, N. C., September 1924 (SEE HERE)
(emphasis mine)

"Covetousness, as generally used in the scripture, is an eager and inordinate desire for earthly things. It was the sin of Balaam, Achan, and Gehazi; and the besetting sin of ancient and modern Jews, and of many of the children of God. Isaiah says, "Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show my people their transgressions, and the house of Jacob their sins." (Isa. 58:1). 

I am in my 83rd year and have been a member of the Primitive Baptist Church about 64 years, and I testify, in love, that covetousness is the greatest sin of our people, not scripturally helping their pastors, nor their poor and needy members.

And the subscribers to our religious periodicals should promptly pay their little subscription to our brethren, who publish them, and who cannot continue to supply us with this truthful and wholesome and comforting literature unless the subscribers pay them their small dues. Liberality to the poor is wise and profitable; while withholding what we should give them tends to poverty. (Prov. 11:24; 19:17; Acts 20:35)."

But, Sylvester was not the first to say this. Notice these words of Elder Joshua Lawrence, whose credentials as one of the main ringleaders in the division of 1832 is undisputable (as is that of Sylvester Hassell):

"Think for yourselves, and so shall I; but this I know to be a fact, that most of the Old School Baptists are a closefisted and covetous set, or else they would not have treated their ministers as they have done for sixty years."

(See the full citation in Hardshells & Mission Opposition XXII Chapter 165 - HERE)

Whether or not this is the Hardshell's greatest sin may be debatable. It is a great sin, no doubt, and one that characterizes the "Primitive" or "Old School" people generally, and one that their greatest leaders have been honest enough to confess. They have other sins also, but, sadly, few of them will even listen to criticism.

Dad's Character as a Christian

Father would not

1) Shut Up (though many tried), but kept right on preaching what he thought was right

2) Let Up (he was steady and non-stop in his service to God and would never quit)

3) Give Up (As a soldier of Jesus, he would never surrender)

Respect for Father by "Church of Christ" Leaders

Pat Donahue wrote to me:

"Steve - how did your Dad die?, Tommy and I loved him to death."

Thomas Thrasher then wrote to me next:

"I am saddened to learn of your Dad's death. Although we disagreed on many theological issues, I counted him as a beloved friend. I appreciated very much his interest in defending in a kind way the things he believed. I treasure our associations and interactions over a period of nearly 45 years. I will miss him." 

 Respectfully,
 Thomas Thrasher

Dad had several debates with these men and spent much time with them outside of the debates. So too have I had debates with them and know them. Thanks Pat and Thomas!

Dr. R. E. Pound on Hardshell Factions

Dr. Pound knows more about the history of the Hardshells than any man, though he is not affiliated with those who call themselves "Primitive Baptists." His writings can be found at

http://particularbaptistlibrary.org/authors.html (HERE)

Dr. Pound believes many of the errors of the first Hardshells, such as being a denier of the Trinity, a believer in eternal vital union, etc.

The only other man I know who knows as much or more than I do about Hardshell history, is professor John Crowley, author of "Primitive Baptists of the Wiregrass South."

Here is what Pound wrote about the first generation Hardshells:

"In those days the Old School brethren were in three groupings on theology: 1. The Delaware River and the Warwick, Samuel Trott, grouping, the deniers of Nicenism; 2. The Ketocton association, with John Clark, the followers of Niceinism; 3. The followers of Wilson Thompson, a Sabellian, who denied that the Father and the Son entered into an eternal covenant because these were not two distinct Beings, but only personalities of the One Divine Being. It seems to me that at the first, these divisions among the old schoolers was not over absolute predestination, but OVER NICENISM."

Most Hardshell preachers do not know this about their history. Those that do know these things want to keep it all swept under the rug.

I would add one thing to what Dr. Pound wrote. Not only was the absolute predestination of all things not an issue in the 1830s and 1840s, but neither was the issue of gospel means in the new birth. All the first Hardshell leaders all professed a belief in means and in absolute predestination.

Where Is The Historian?

Nearly all Hardshells know about their leading "historians," especially that of Elders C.B. and Sylvester Hassell. Yet few today, if any, know much about the history of either Baptists in general or of their own "Primitive Baptist Church." Are there no historians among the Hardshells today after the order of Hassell(s), Newman, Redford, Craig, etc.?

There are two modern Hardshells who have seemed to want to be thought of as the modern day Hassell, knowing the most about Hardshell history. These are Harold Hunt and Michael Ivey, both of whom have written revisionist histories at which the Hassells would have laughed. I have written extensively against these two seekers of the title of "Supreme Hardshell Historian."

Well, I tell you, I challenge any Hardshell to come forward and show that they know more of their history than I do. That is why there has not been one Hardshell to come forward to disprove all the evidence I have presented to show that the Hardshell histories contain numerous errors, some even intentional.

Preachers Rejected by Familiars

Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home." (Mark 6: 4 NIV)

Is what Christ said of a "prophet" also true of a preacher or pastor? Further, what does this fact say to us? Is this fact because "familiarity breeds contempt"?

"It is hard to believe in the supremacy of one, whom circumstances marked as our equal, and to admit the chieftainship of one who started side by side with us." (Expositor's Bible Commentary)

Is that it? Is that the reason? Well, one thing is clear, for whatever reason a man of God is often lightly esteemed by his own kin.

19th Century PB Periodicals & Citations

It is a good thing for modern day researchers of the "Primitive" or "Old School" (Hardshell) Baptist church that the first several periodicals of the denomination are now available on the Internet.  If one will read these first periodicals, he will learn what the first Hardshells believed.  I hope that today's Hardshells will take the time to read these periodicals and discover how far they have removed from what their forefathers believed.  These three periodicals were the leading voices for the newly formed Hardshell denomination:

Signs of the Times (began in 1832 - see here)
The Primitive Baptist (began in 1835 - see here)
Christian Doctrinal Advocate and Spiritual Monitor (began in 1838 and sometimes called "The Advocate and Monitor" - see here and here)

Vol. 1 of "The Primitive Baptist" (1836)

Q. Why then is vengeance pronounced against them that obey not the gospel?

A. Because there is no way of escape from the vengeance due to breach of law, but by the gospel, or being born again, which embraces obedience to the gospel.

Q. And why is condemnation pronounced against him that believeth not? (St. John 3: 18--St. Mark 16: 16)

A. Because there is no way from under condemnation, but through faith. (Eph. 2: 8--Mark 16: 16)  (pg. 292)

Q. How does Christ's righteousness become indeed our justification?

A. It is imputed to us through faith in him. (Rom. 5: 1--Acts 13: 39-=-Rom. 1:17--4: 11, 6: 8 11, 22, 23, 24-- Gal. 3: 16)  (pg. 293)

"No, the Lord tells his preachers to go, and I believe he will make them go and preach, and make his people believe;  for he says, my people shall, not may, be a willing people;  but shall be a willing people in the day of my power."  (pg. 306)

"...how sadly they will be mistaken, when they have to share their portion with hypocrites, (and all unbelievers in God's plan of salvation by grace) in the lake that will burn like fire and  brimstone."  (pg. 312)