This chapter is a continuation of the immediate previous chapters dealing with the Two Seed debate that was occurring in the "Signs of the Times" periodical for the year 1849. In the immediate preceding chapters we have noticed what Elder T.P. Dudley wrote as an apologist for Two Seedism in the early 19th century in his pamphlet on "The Christian Warfare." We also began to give some of the discussion that occurred through the "Signs of the Times," a Two Seed periodical, and the leading voice for the newly formed "Old School" or "Primitive" Baptist church. We have cited from several elders on both sides of the debate, from Beebe, Trott, Wilson Thompson, John Watson, Samuel Williams, T. P. Dudley, Thomas Barton, etc.
In the previous chapter we cited from a letter sent to the
"Signs of the Times" by
"the Brethren About The Fort Mountain" wherein they, like Elder Samuel Willaims, objected to Two Seed ideas. We will begin this chapter with the reply to their letter by Elder Samuel Trott, who was often ready to reply to any and all who objected to Two Seedism. Trott's reply was published on the first page of the August 15th, 1849 issue of the
"Signs of the Times" (Vol. XVII, No. 16; See
here) titled
"Reply to the Brethren about Fort Mountain." In it Trott says:
"In my communication in the 10th No. present Vol. Signs, in replying to brother Barton's query concerning the churches being created in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world, I took the ground, that the expressions "Created in Christ Jesus," naturally involved the idea that his church was created in his creation, as the Head of his church, and of course, as far back as he has stood as her Head. I referred to I Cor. xv. 45 as sustaining the same idea, and Col. i. 15 as further justifying that application of the idea of creatureship to our Lord in reference to his headship."
When the scriptures speak of being "created in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2: 10) and becoming a "new creature in Christ Jesus" (II Cor. 5: 17, etc.), the Two Seeders say that this creation occurred before the foundation of the world, from past eternity, in conjunction with Christ being begotten of the Father and being created a Mediator, and when his human soul (and body too according to some, but more on that later) was created. That is certainly a strange and novel view. It is the traditional view to say that this creation occurs when one is converted and born of the Spirit, when he is regenerated. With this view, one can see how the Two Seeders denied any change in conversion, regeneration, or the new birth.
One can also see (if he has read our previous chapters showing where certain Hyper Calvinists such as Joseph Hussey, in the early 18th century, began to say that the human soul of Christ was what was begotten when he was begotten as the Son of God in eternity past) how an Arian view of the Sonship of Christ contributed to giving birth to the idea that the children of God were begotten or created when Christ was begotten.
Trott wrote further:
"They (the Fort Mountain brethren) try to convince the minds of the readers that Christ was never made a Quickening Spirit as so expressly asserted in that text...I will answer the questions they put to me. The first is, Whether the quickening and life giving spirit of God is a created existence? I answer decidedly yes.--The text under consideration I think gives me full authority to answer. It says, "The last Adam was made a Quickening Spirit." A Quickening Spirit I presume they will admit must a life giving spirit. To be made is equivalent to being created."
So, does I Cor. 5: 45 and the words "the last Adam was made a quickening spirit" imply all that Trott and the Two Seeders affirm? Certainly not. Benson in his commentary rightly says:
"And so it is written — With respect to the animal body, Genesis 2:7. The first Adam was made a living soul — God gave him animal life, in many respects resembling that of other animals; the last Adam was made — Rather was, or is, for there is nothing in the original for made; a quickening Spirit — Having life in himself, and quickening whom he will: imparting even a more refined life to men’s bodies at the resurrection, than that which they formerly possessed."
Not only that, but Christ having life in himself is an affirmation that the man Christ, or divine Son in his incarnate state, has such life. So Jesus said:
"For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself." (John 5: 26 nkjv)
The incarnate Son was granted divine powers and attributes as a man, but this does not mean that he did not have these things as the eternal divine Son of God. Wrote Dr. Barnes in his commentary:
"Hath he given - This shows that the power or authority here spoken of was "given" or committed to the Lord Jesus. This evidently does not refer to the manner in which the second person of the Trinity exists, for the power and authority of which Christ here speaks is that which he exercises as "Mediator." It is the power of raising the dead and judging the world. In regard to his divine nature, it is not affirmed here that it is in any manner derived; nor does the fact that God is said to have "given" him this power prove that he was inferior in his nature or that his existence was derived."
We should compare "made a quickening spirit" with "made flesh" (John 1: 14). He was God the Word and God the Son before he was made flesh and before he was given life to give as such to others.
Trott wrote further:
"...but Christ being the Beginning of the creation of God, I understand no, for Christ is that beginning...But Christ being the Beginning of the creation of God, and the First Born of every creature, must in this sense have been created or brought into existence before these, and therefore before time. As no other reading has been attempted to be given these texts, Rev. iii.14 and Col. i.15, I still think them good authority as they read. But as they do not satisfy these brethren, I will produce other corroborating texts. In John i.4 we read, "In him was life; and the life was the light of men." This is said of the Word as he in the beginning was with God, and was God, vs. 1. Will any person after candid reflection say of this life that is so particularly spoken of as distinct from the Word as being declared to be in the Word; and again as to prevent mistake, it is said that the life was the light of men, not simply it was the light, &c, that it is itself the Word or the essential existence of the Godhead? If not, must they not admit that this life that it was a produced, that is, a begotten or created existence in the Word, or be driven to the necessity of admitting that there are other self existences than God, and therefore other Gods?--If then this life was not a self existence, then it may properly termed a creature as being produced of God."
In preceding chapters we have shown how Two Seed ideology sprang partly from an Arian view of the Sonship of Christ. Many first generation Hardshell Baptists did not agree with the Two Seeders on their interpretation of the texts above. We don't want to be too repetitious in giving citations from Two Seeders for we could give many. We only want the reader to see how error on the doctrine of the Trinity and on Christ' eternal Sonship led to Two Seed ideology.
Thomas Barton, who we have previously cited, writes to Trott in response to Trott's reply to him and the Fort Mountain brethren in the Sept. 15, 1849 issue of the "Signs of the Times" as follows.
"An allusion has been made, I presume, to a difference of opinion between brother Trott and myself on the "Bond of Union."
"True indeed; we differed; but if I understand the matter properly, the difference is not essential. I presume we agree as to the facts of this union; that the union has existed as long as Christ has existed as Head, and the church as his body...Our difference therefore is simply in reference to that which constitutes the bond by which they are held together. I took occasion in my communication to propose a query on the subject of creation.--My reason for doing so I will now give.--From my first reflection on Eph. 2: 10, I have understood it to have reference to the conversion of the sinner, and particularly gentile sinners; but when I found brethren for whose opinions I entertained the highest respect, and I am sincere in saying that I regarded them as far superior to myself in knowledge and wisdom: I say, when I found such brethren taking a very different view of that text and of its connection, I began to think that perhaps that I was wrong, and, for a considerable time I was agitated on the subject: and indeed, I may say, I was unsettled in my mind on the question; and with a view of getting all the light I could, I proposed the query. Since then I have read and heard in conversation much on the subject, all which has left me just where I was, until I was led to give it another investigation, and if ever in my life I investigated a subject with an honest and sincere desire to obtain a correct understanding of it, I did so on this occasion; the result of which is a more full confirmation of the correctness of my first view I took of it, than ever. I am now as fully satisfied, as I am on any subject in the bible, that Paul, or the Holy Ghost through him, was treating, not on what was done for the church in eternity, but what is done for her in time, in the conversion of the gentiles. True all that is done for her in time is the result of what was done for her in eternity."
"I cannot however see that this difference goes to affect any fundamental principle of the gospel."
Barton was correct in his interpretation. What is strange, however, is Barton's esteeming the leading ideas of Two Seedism to be no great error. I see that Barton's feelings were fairly common among the first generation of "Primitive" Baptists. If one reads the "Signs of the Times" in the 1830s and 1840s he will see many leading elders who wrote to that paper in support of it who would later become opponents of Two Seedism, men like John Watson, John Clark, Grigg Thompson, etc. It is also strange that they could declare non fellowship for Mission Baptists for supporting missions and theological education, etc., and yet tolerate such heresies of the Two Seeders.
In the
"Signs of the Times" for July 18th, 1849 (Vol. XVII, No. 14; See
here) Elder
Samuel Williams, who we have been citing in the previous chapters, wrote the following to Elder Beebe:
"I have just received the 12th number, present volume, of the Signs: and I am much pleased with your reply to my letter contained in the same paper. I freely admit, that Jesus Christ is the life of the church; and that life existed prior to the creation of this natural world. But, I have never understood that "life" to be the church. I believe the church as a body, is composed of sinners of Adam's race--and that sinners of Adam's race are adopted into the family of God. In God's appointed time, that "life" enters into the "vessels of mercy"--quickens their dead souls--washes them from all sin by the "washing of regeneration"--and is in them the spirit of adoption, whereby they cry Abba Father, I agree with you, my brother, that the natural or mortal body, does not become a "new creature" until the resurrection day. And I am glad that you admitted that the SOULS of God's children are "quickened" and become "new creatures" by being born again."
I agree with Williams that Beebe's argument to prove the preexistence of the souls of the elect or church based upon the fact that the "life" that is given is uncreated and eternal is invalid. Two Seedism is read into the scriptures which speak of sinners receiving eternal life. Receiving eternal life does not mean receiving an eternal spirit child of God. When a sinner is saved he partakes of the "divine nature" (II Peter 1: 4) but it would be a stretch to think that this implies that because the divine nature is without beginning so too are the children of God or those who are partakers of the divine nature in time. The preexistence of the divine life and nature does not necessarily infer the preexistence of the souls of the saved.
Williams says he is pleased that Beebe agrees that the souls of sinners, "of Adam's race," are "quickened" and made "new creatures" when they are born of the Spirit in time. This affirmation by Beebe, as we have previously seen, was objected to by Elder Dudley, a fellow Two Seeder as Beebe.
Wrote Williams:
"With your answer to my second question I do not fully agree. I believe that the apostle in the second chapter, of the Epistle to the Ephesians, in speaking of the great change wrought in the souls of his brethren by the Spirit of the living God. Consequently when he says---"we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works," he means by the word "created," the regenerating influence of the Spirit, by which their souls were made new creatures."
"These few lines I have written for the satisfaction of my brethren who may have read my letter containing the questions to which you have in a kind manner replied, in the 12th number of the present Volume of the Signs of the Times."
After publishing the communications of Elder Williams and the
circular by Elder Dudley (which we spoke of in the previous chapter) in the
"Signs of the Times," in 1849, several people jumped into the discussion, such as Elder Trott, who wrote a lengthy reply to the queries of Williams and in defense of Dudley and his Two Seed views. Grigg Thompson also writes in the November 1st, 1849 issue of the Signs. (See
here) Also, a writer named E. S. Dudley wrote in opposition to T. P. Dudley and Two Seedism.
It was in the 1840s and 1850s that Two Seedism became the main topic of discussion among the "Old Schoolers." Some of those who became fervent opponents of Two Seedism nevertheless wrote brotherly remarks to the "Signs of the Times" and to other Two Seed Primitive Baptist periodicals, such as to the "The Southern Baptist Messenger," begun in 1850 by Gilbert Beebe's son, Elder William L. Beebe, and published out of Covington, Georgia. The "Herald of Truth," mentioned by Elder Watson in "The Old Baptist Test," begun by Watson's fellow minister, R. W. Fain, and later taken over by Elder T. S. Dalton, seems also to have been a leading paper opposing Two Seeders.
Elder John Clark often wrote to the Signs until he began opposing Beebe and Two Seedism in the early 1850s, and began publishing "Zion's Advocate," and then in 1873 published "Exposure of Heresies" wherein he attacked the "Arianism" of Beebe, Trott, and others. Many years ago I sat in our local library and read this little book, getting it via an inter library loan. We will also see what lengthy remarks Grigg Thompson had to say against the "Arianism" of Two Seedism. After Clark began his periodical "Zion's Advocate" in 1854 he became a recognized leader of those who came to be known as "Clark Old School Baptists" and who were opposed to those who were known as "Beebe Old School Baptists" or "Beebeites."
In November, 1897, Sylvester Hassell, Hardshell historian, wrote some things in his paper the
"Gospel, Messenger" which was later made into a booklet titled
"The Relations Between Those Called the Beebe and the Clark Old School Baptists." (It can be read online
here)
It seems that the first two periodicals of the "Primitive" or "Old School" Baptists represented the two sides in the Two Seed debate. The "Signs of the Times" published out of New York, edited by Beebe and the peridical where Trott did much of his writings, was first, beginning immediately after the Black Rock Address, and had the support of that Convention for starting that periodical. It became the impetus for Beebe and sons running a publishing business out of New York. Shortly thereafter the "Primitive Baptist" periodical was begun in 1836 with Elder Mark Bennett as editor with the full support of Elder Joshua Lawrence, one of the foremost leaders in the Kehukee Association of North Carolina, and published out of Tarbor, N.C. However, the periodical titled "Christian Doctrinal Advocate and Spiritual Monitor" preceded both the above Hardshell periodicals. This periodical was first supported by nearly all the founders of the Hardshell sect. It's editor was Elder Daniel E. Jewett. Many old issues of this periodical are available to read online. I have read many issues. When Jewett passed away Elder C.B. Hassell married his widow, and the children of Jewett became step brothers and sisters of Sylvester Hassell. Later Beebe would purchase Jewett's periodical and is why the "Signs of the Times" would say on each page of issues of that periodical "Advocate and Monitor." I believe Jewett's paper preceded that of the "Signs of the Times."
In a separate article titled
"Reply to Brother Dudley" by Gilbert Beebe in the
"Signs of the Times" for July 1st, 1849 (Vol. XVII. No 13; See
here), Beebe writes:
"The two particular points involved in the consideration of this text, to which our attention is called, are 1. the origin of these children, and 2. How they became united to their federal Head, the second Adam.
"First, the origin of these children...we presume that brother Dudley is as well satisfied that these children had their origin in God, as we are."
"We are free to express the strong conviction of our mind as the seed of Christ, they had their origin in him as their seminal Head, and divinely appointed Mediator, long before they became partakers of flesh and blood. Some of them we know existed as the seed of Christ, when he poured out his soul unto death, for at that time he saw all his seed, and some of them have never until the present time been developed as partakers of flesh and blood: only as they had an earthly or natural existence in Adam the first, from the day that man became a living soul."
"Christ existed as the Son of God before he was made of a woman; and so his seed existed in him as their Mediator and seminal Head, before they were created in Adam. When we speak of the existence of Christ as the Son of God, the Mediator, the Head of the Church and the Life of his people, before he became incarnate, we do not allude to his absolute Godhead, for in his Godhead he is the Eternal, the self-existent God, in the most absolute sense of the word, but we allude to what he was as the beginning of the creation of God, and the First-Born of every creature. And thus existing in his Mediatorial character, the fullness of the Godhead, and the fullness of the church were embodied in the Mediatorial existence."
"He was the Son of God before he partook of flesh and blood, and his seed were the children of God in his sonship before they partook of flesh and blood. Brother Dudley will perceive that while we ascribe to Christ absolute Godhead, in the most absolute and unlimited sense of the word; and as such deny that he is second, subsequent, or inferior to any other God, we refer every title applied to him in the scriptures, which implies derivation, emanation, generation, or dependence, to his Mediatorial headship of his church, which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all, excepting only such titles as are used in special reference to his humanity. (to be concluded in the next part)"
Here Beebe once again gives some of the leading tenets of Two Seedism.
In Beebe's second article, which was published in the next issue of the "Signs of the Times" (for July 18, 1849; Vol. XVII, No. 14; See here) and addressed to "Brother Dudley" Beebe wrote:
"Second:--The second point for consideration, is, "How they became united to their federal Head, the second Adam?" The original seminal union and identity of the church as the body, which Christ as the Head has probably been sufficiently discussed in the first division of our article; but we suppose brother Dudley's enquiry to embrace the subject of experimental union--for certainly neither he nor any other intelligent brother can conceive of the existence of a living head, and a living body belonging to that living Head, and at the same time disconnected, or disunited."
We have noticed this line of argument before. The Two Seeders reasoned that since Christ has always been the Mediator and Head of the church, so must the church (body) have always existed. But, this is false reasoning for it is built upon false premises. Christ being a mediator and head of the church was only true in the decrees of God before he became such in time when he became a man. Christ was appointed such in eternity past, but that does not equate to his actually being so. Christ was my appointed Savior even before I was born or existed. To say that Christ was my Savior before I was born does not mean that I existed before I was born.
Wrote Beebe:
"...the matter of union concerning which our brother inquires, must be that experimental union which is developed in the saints when Christ is formed in them the hope of glory. How this is brought about involves considerations second in importance only to what we have already expressed our views upon."
Here again we see unique terminology, jargon that is peculiar to Two Seed Primitive Baptists. We have already noticed in previous chapters how the word "manifested" is such a word, carrying connotations that are not normally understood by Bible believers. In the above we see the word "experimental" and this is another word often used today by "Primitive Baptists" who are no longer Two Seeders, it being one of those remnants of Two Seedism. I heard that word "experimentally" many times when I was a young "Primitive Baptist" preacher. Most did not believe in justification by faith, but in justification in eternity, as did many of the first Two Seeders, and would say that faith only justifies "experimentally," meaning it is only when he experiences or realizes that he is justified.
Another word Beebe uses is "developed." In Beebe's thinking, after a child is conceived in the womb, he is yet undeveloped, and needs time in the womb to develop as a child of God, and even when delivered from the womb, the child still needs to develop or mature. In Two Seedism the child was conceived as seed when Christ was begotten by the Father in eternity past, which begetting of Christ was not expressive of his shared divinity with the Father, but of his becoming a Mediator and Head of the church, the body of Christ composing all the elect. That being so, being born into the world (partaking of flesh and blood) and being born again were instances where the eternally begotten children of God are in time developed. As I have written many times through the years in my blogs, many of the first Hardshell Baptists believed in what is called the three stage model of birth. The first stage being the implantation of the divine seed (corresponding to the time when an elect person is 'regenerated'), the second stage being the time spent in the womb (corresponding to the time where a fetus is 'developed' in the womb and to the time when a person is under Holy Spirit conviction of sin), the third stage being "deliverance" (corresponding to the time when the convicted sinner is delivered from guilt in conscience and receives a hope in Christ). Beebe would agree with this except that he would put the origin of the seed in Christ in past eternity.
Notice that Beebe's "experimental union" is not actual union, for he places union with Christ to a time in past eternity when Christ was begotten, created, or made a Mediator and Head, which involved the creation of his human soul.
Wrote Beebe:
"Thus having, by virtue of pre-existing relationship, union and identity, sustained legally the character, and performed effectually the work of a Redeemer he has "Gone up with a shout, and with the sound of a trumpet."
The only relationship that Christ had to any man, elected or not, in eternity past, was in the mind and foreknowledge of God. God, who exists outside of time, saw every man who would ever come into existence and in foreknowledge of this ordained that Christ should be the legal representative. Beebe and the Two Seeders think that this is nonsense, arguing that no one can be the representative of someone who does not yet exist. But, this is a case of willing ignorance for the scriptures show that this is not so. God knew Jeremiah before he was formed in the womb (Jer. 1: 5). David said that God did foresee him even before he existed. (Psa. 139: 13-17) Long before King Cyrus was born, God said he was his servant or anointed one to execute his will. (Isa. 44: 28-45: 1-7) He was appointed the head and representative of his empire even before either he or his empire came into being.
Wrote Beebe:
"In the prosecution of this blessed work the heirs of immortality are made to hear the voice of the Son of God and live; and when thus made alive they are made to feel and realize their lost and helpless condition as sinners against God, and to despair of salvation through any work or merit of their own, and when sufficiently humbled before God, Christ is revealed to them as their Life, their Righteousness, Sanctification and Redemption."
Notice the Two Seed order of things in the above testimony. He puts conviction of sin as a result of having been saved by hearing the voice of the Son of God and coming to life, rather than as a prerequisite for being saved. This aspect of Two Seedism still exists today among even those "Primitive Baptists" who say that they have declared non fellowship with Two Seedism. As I have pointed out in several articles through the years, this ordo salutis makes the Holy Spirit to bear witness to a falsehood, for if the ones convicted of their lost condition are not really lost, then the Holy Spirit is lying. If they are "alive" before they "feel and realize their lost and helpless condition as sinners" then they are no longer in that condition, and so if the Holy Spirit tells those spiritually alive sinners that they are lost, he is not telling the truth.
Wrote Beebe:
"Not to make them sons, but because they are sons, God sends forth the spirit of his Son into their hearts, and his spirit witnesses with their spirits, that they are born of God. Now they experience and enjoy this union with their Second and anti-typical Adam; and they are made to know him and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his suffering."
Beebe, in the above remarks, alludes to these words of the apostle Paul:
"To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father." (Gal. 4: 5-6 kjv)
Beebe, along with today's Hardshells, even though they reject Two Seedism, nevertheless also teach that Paul is affirming that one is an actual, living, son of God before he is indwelt by the "Spirit of his Son." If we say that this receiving of the Holy Spirit occurs when a sinner is born again or regenerated, then such an interpretation says that one is already a born again son of God before he receives the Spirit, or before he is born again.
First, Beebe's view that says that these Galatian believers were begotten sons from eternity, being begotten when Christ was begotten, is against the text, for Paul says that Christ' work of redemption was in order that sinners might be placed into the position of sons, and thus disproves that they were already his sons before he redeemed them.
Second, Paul is not denying that the sending of the Spirit into hearts is what makes anyone a son of God. Let me paraphrase what he is saying:
"And because you Galatians are presently sons of God as believers, through God's workmanship, God has obviously or evidently, prior to this, sent his Spirit into your hearts to make you cry Abba, Father."
There is no way the text can be read to say:
"Because you are regenerated, God has sent forth his Spirit into your hearts to cause you to believe."
Paul has already affirmed to the Galatians that they had received the Spirit by faith. (Gal. 3: 2)
I could say - "because you are citizens the state has authorized it and made it so." In saying these words I do not mean that I was a citizen before the state authorized it, but only that my being a citizen implied or inferred that the state has defined me as such. In logic it is "If A, then B." I could also say "because you are a male, God has given you an XY chromosome." A necessitates B, being a consequent of B.
In the next chapter we will continue to look at some of the debate that took place in the "Signs of the Times" in the year 1849.
