This is a follow up to the previous writing on this subject. In it I wish to cite from "The Divine Call" by Susan Roach (Phd), being the record of an interview done with "Primitive Baptist Preachers of North Louisiana" (here) in 1984, having this introduction (all highlighting mine):
"In 1984 she interviewed two ministers of the Oak Grove Primitive Baptist Church, a rural church in Winn Parish. The men reveal the worldview of Primitive Baptists and their spiritual testimonies offer parallel mystical experiences and transitional ordeals undergone by these men upon their conversions when they received the call to preach."
The following citations are taken from her report, along with my comments and observations.
Dr. Roach writes:
"Unlike many Protestant denominations, ministers of the Primitive Baptist Church, a fundamentalist sect which believes in absolute predestination, are not required to attend a seminary. Instead, they are “called by God” into the role of preacher through a long spiritual ordeal."
Observations
1. Apparently Dr. Roach is interviewing ministers of the "Absoluter" faction of the PBs, for they still believe in the absolute predestination of all things (and which most of their founding fathers also did) and so their views will not reflect those Pbs today who decry Absolute predestination of all things (being the "Conditionalist" faction and which is the majority view of 20th and 21st century "Primitive Baptists").
2. Not only are ministers not required to attend a seminary, they would be forbidden to do so! They would be excluded if they did so!
3. It is typical Hardshell thinking to say that believing in ministers being "called" excludes them being taught in a seminary. What glorious Hardshell logic! Attending seminary proves one is not called! Not attending seminary is proof of calling!
4. Preachers, as part of their calling, enter the ministry through "a long spiritual ordeal"? What do they mean? They mean that they tried to resist preaching but found that they could not resist, like Jonah, and so had to go through a Hell like his before they would make their ministerial calling sure.
Dr. Roach wrote:
"According to two such ministers from North Louisiana — “Elder Godwin” and “Elder Mercer,” as they are addressed by church members of the Oak Grove Primitive Baptist Church in Winn Parish—the role of the Primitive Baptist minister is primarily to speak words of comfort to “the flock” through poetic sermons which are chanted and formulaic in form. Unlike most denominations, which pay their ministers, the only remuneration received by the Primitive Baptist ministers is the reciprocal comfort they receive by giving God’s children comfort."
Observations
1. It was one of the ideas of the Two Seeders to say that the preaching of the gospel or word of God was only intended for the benefit of those already saved, for their comfort alone. It was not the leading view of the opponents of Two Seedism among the founders and first generation leaders of the "Primitive" or "Old School" Baptist denomination for they taught that the gospel was also the means of effecting rebirth.
2. Notice again the reference to the peculiar preaching style of most 19th century frontier preachers, a thing much talked about by Elder Daniel Parker and many others in the Hardshell cult. In fact, with many, judging a person's call and success in sermon giving often depended on how well he could "get into the spirit" in melodiously singing out words with deep emotion. When a preacher was "blessed" to preach, he would enter into a sort of ecstatic state of speaking, a kind of inspiration.
3. The opposition to a preacher receiving any kind of financial support was very strong among the first Hardshells and it is still strong among many of them today, although some today have been able to correct their brethren on this point and do receive better financial support than ever before.
Dr. Roach wrote:
"Primitive Baptists also differ from other Baptist groups in that the ministers and other members do not seek to convert others, since the Primitive Baptists do not believe in proselytizing. They believe that God has determined before the creation of the world who is predestined to salvation; therefore, any missionary attempts to convert nonbelievers is both useless and offensive."
Observations
1. Pbs don't seek to convert others? What do these elders mean by "convert"? Regeneration? New birth? Time salvation? Do not many PB churches today support efforts to "convert others" to their views? Proselyting? Though I agree that much of what today's PBs do in regard to "evangelism" (attempts to convert others) is really "proselyting," yet these two elders seem to think that all efforts to preach to the world in general are proselyting, which leads me to believe that they are of the Absoluter faction. But, this attitude and belief among that faction reveals something about their forefather's beliefs.
2. It seems that these two elders connect being "converted" with being made a believer. Attempts to regenerate is useless and offensive? Or attempts to convert from doctrinal error is useless? These preachers have the attitude and belief which I often heard while I was a Hardshell elder, and expressed in these words: "if the Lord wants them to see it he will show it to them" (apart from any human efforts).
Dr. Roach wrote:
"This type of preaching, typically done by a folk preacher, is dependent upon Divine power. According to researcher Bruce Rosenberg, who has studied the callings of American folk preachers, “a person may be called to do the Lord’s work, but to preach requires ‘spiritual power.’ This feeling that one is divinely summoned is important in understanding sermon techniques. Only spiritual power allows one to preach well; that can only come from God…” Mercer confirms this: “Can’t no man preach. Preaching is done by the Spirit. The man—it’s just done through him … we are just an instrument in the hands of the almighty God, that through us he sends that unto his children; we deliver that that is delivered unto us.”"
Observations
1. It is strange that one could have this kind of belief about the mechanics of spiritual preaching and how God speaks through ministers and yet affirm "direct speaking" regeneration! The "legs of the lame are not equal here." It seems to me that what these elders affirm is consistent with sinners hearing the voice of the Lord in preaching. They say "preaching is done by the Spirit"? If this is so, then why promote the direct speaking view? Why affirm that one can't hear the Spirit through an instrument? What think ye?
2. Notice again the reference to the style of preaching of "folk preachers," or lay preachers, or frontier preachers, and the "sermon techniques" of those who believe these things about preaching by the Spirit. Notice how it has been an object of study by historians.
Dr. Roach wrote:
“… I got to where I was losing a lot of sleep. I got to where I would walk the floor a lot at night, shed tears, and I got in a terrible shape. Well, one night I had a dream or a vision whichever you want to call it, in my sleep. I dreamed that I was an old bending man, gray-headed. I saw myself just as plain as I am looking at you, and I was in the pulpit preaching. And I don’t know what I was preaching, but I was preaching real hard … and the pulpit down there at Oak Grove was where I was at … So I woke up, and there was an awful burden on me, an awful burden, and the burden was to preach the gospel and to comfort God’s children. Well, I vowed that I wouldn’t do that; I didn’t belong to the [Primitive Baptist] church … So I said, ‘I’ll show them something … I won’t have to preach if I don’t join the church.’ ”
Still, the inner torment continued for Mercer.
“So one night I was in deep trouble; I hadn’t slept any, and along about midnight, maybe after, I’d shed tears all night, maybe walked the floor; I was in awful shape. My wife, she couldn’t sleep … She says, ‘I’m goin’ to get up and make you some coffee.’
“I said, ‘Baby, coffee won’t do me no good.’ She said, ‘ Well, what in the world is wrong with you? I want to know.’
“I said, ‘I been called to preach.’
I said, ‘I’ll die and go to the bottom pits of hell before I’ll preach… .’
“Anyway, I said that I would not preach. I wasn’t goin’ to do that. I went every time [to church] … And I really enjoyed it … The little old church over here was not active for a while; it was down because there was no pastor there. They got a little old preacher from out there in East Texas —Brother Wilburn Morris come in there, and he come up there and took over, but he had had a vision, … and he had saw me and Brother David in this vision as ministers. And the first time that he saw me, when I walked around the corner of that building there … He said, ‘There comes a man that I saw in a vision … he’s a hardshell preacher.’"
Observations
1. Notice the reliance upon dreams and visions. Again, one can read the old periodicals and see many writers and correspondents speaking of them.
2. This idea that a real call will often involve initial rebellion became a common idea in the Pb church. Anyone who volunteered preaching was suspect. The real God called ones are they who resist for awhile till they are overcome. This same belief is seen in churches asking ministers in a congregation to come forward and speak and expecting them to resist to some degree. To not resist at all would be a sign that the person is forward and not being led of the Lord.
Dr. Roach wrote:
"Elder Godwin’s conversion narrative mirrors Elder Mercer’s in many ways, but where Mercer had dreams about his destiny, Godwin had visions. Like Mercer, Godwin also was searching for religious answers before he had his ultimate conversion experience."
Observations
1. Confirms much of what I just observed about judging a man's call and conversion.
2. Notice again the importance of dreams.
Dr. Roach wrote:
"Both ministers agreed that when they were experiencing their religious callings, they were unsure of their sanity, and neither had ever heard of anyone else undergoing such experiences. However, they later learned from others that their ordeals were typical of members of their faith."
Observations
1. These "ordeals" are not only typical, but they became the standard by which to measure the genuineness of one's call (either to salvation or ministry). If you did not have such a Jonah type experience, then you were probably a fake, not having really been called.
2. "Unsure of their sanity." I wrote an entry in the Baptist Gadfly blog about Elder J.C. Hurst (late 19th century) who was a doctor and wrote a book on the insanity of the Hardshells and published it in a medical journal. Ironically, Hurst later became insane (joining the Hardshells). He was a leader in the Absoluter faction and well known. He is mentioned in biographical histories of Pb elders along with his writing on insanity.
Dr. Roach wrote:
"Detailing the events from their initial religious crisis to their ordination, Mercer and Godwin’s conversion stories demonstrate dramatically the ways in which their religious mystical struggles authenticate the spiritual calling. The Primitive Baptist belief that God chooses “the elect” calls for intense, unmistakable signs that one has indeed been chosen."
Observations
1. Notice how the "religious mystical struggles" are what will "authenticate" whether one has been either reborn or called to preach. In regard to rebirth, recall the popular first generation Pb view that spoke of the travail (struggle) of soul that comes between regeneration and rebirth. In regard to being called to preach, the same travail precedes the acceptance of the call.
2. Notice how the Hardshell psyche is always looking for "signs" that one has been "chosen" either for salvation or ministry. We could say a lot about that but will let it speak for itself.
Dr. Roach wrote:
"Initially, both men had mystical experiences which told them of their new destiny. Both men, having received calls around age forty, actively fought against the call, vowing upon vows that they would rather “go to the bottom pits of hell before preaching the gospel.” In spite of their resistance, both men found themselves destined to become ministers, especially after hearing another Primitive Baptist minister’s account of a mystical vision he had of both of them as ministers of the Oak Grove Church, which was in search of a minister at that time. With such authentication of their new roles, both men were compelled to answer the call and, thus, were given access to the speaking role of preacher, who, as an “instrument of the almighty God … comforts the flock,” and serves the Primitive Baptist Church with chanted sermons."
Observations
1. Notice the reference to "mystical experiences" and "mystical vision." I have several postings over the years on this point. For instance see "Hardshell Mysticism & Esoteric Christianity" (here). Notice again how such mystical experiences give "authentication" for their callings.
2. Also, notice again how the manner of sermon delivery is an important "sign" of inspired preaching. It will come as "chanted sermons."
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